Okay lots of comments which will hopefully go toward some kind of proper revision of my work. My primary intention was to verify that I am not actually writing fluff here (although also to get some interest in my guide); yes, part is from the manual but most is from my own game-playing, like the section on population/workers which I still find accurate (very last paragraph.)

Trium, the desirability ratings are from the back of the manual but also from playing the game. I don't see interpreting two pluses as +2 particularly confusing, it seemed more intuitive.

The sentence on desirability you quote simply specifies that a colosseum, being a bigger building, occupies more space and hence more surrounding blocks are likely to be affected. It does not indicate that a colosseum is more undesirable because it is merely bigger. I think that is also correct.

Section on culture definitely needs work.

Most of those statements should not be interpreted as direct consequences on your city; i.e. fumigation DOES affect the peace rating because illness creates unrest, more unhappy citizens and can lead to crime and disquiet. This is why I still love this game, because realistically building and maintaining a city should not only rely on one element but a multitude of things, causality comes into play.

I've found that building more structures when there are a large number of intersections will ensure that coverage, though you will end up having a shortage of workers etc...Of course this is not the case in Master of Olympus but routes and path-taking by the AI was notably broken in Caesar. In many of my games I found that I had to destroy a market because the stupid market-vendor would walk somewhere without any dwelling, or not find the nearby warehouse.

[This message has been edited by theinkandpen (edited 03-09-2011 @ 07:21 PM).]

I've found that building more structures when there are a large number of intersections will ensure that coverage
Another way is to build whithout intersections ...
Long walk allows "blocks" near 10K whith a single road for all houses.

Quoted from theinkandpen:

verify that I am not actually writing fluff here

It depends on what you mean by "fluff". There are errors on every page, but I wouldn't consider most of them to be critical.

Quoted from theinkandpen:

the section on population/workers which I still find accurate (very last paragraph.)

I saw 2 errors in that paragraph.

While there is some randomness in the ages of immigrants, with a large number of immigrants the fraction of workers is usually a little over 40%. I don't know what the fraction of children among new immigrants usually is, but the number of children born each year is definitely non-random.

There are other ways to "solve" worker shortages than adding houses or letting patrician housing devolve to plebian houses. Those ways include using workers more efficiently, eliminating less important buildings, and evolving houses below large insulae (but not as far as small villas).

Quoted from theinkandpen:

I don't see interpreting two pluses as +2 particularly confusing, it seemed more intuitive.

It might be confusing to a player who understands how the game computes desirability but who hasn't memorized desirability numbers. For example, your guide says "Fruit, olive and wine farms have a +1 desirability value", but the desirability effect that the game uses (for fruit, olive, and vine farms) is +2 adjacent, +3 with 1 tile in between, and 0 beyond that.

Quoted from theinkandpen:

routes and path-taking by the AI was notably broken in Caesar.

I am amused by players who call a game "broken" or "buggy" when they have difficulty playing it.

Quoted from theinkandpen:

In many of my games I found that I had to destroy a market because the stupid market-vendor would walk somewhere without any dwelling, or not find the nearby warehouse.

Many walkers, including market traders, appear like they just wander around. (Of course, there are patterns, and we have discovered how to predict a large part of such walkers' routes, but that is rather complicated.) So if you simply place a market (or library or temple) near some houses, the market trader (or librarian or priest) might not go by those houses, or it might sometimes go by the houses, or it might always go by the houses. If you change the nearby roads then the market trader (or librarian or priest) might change its behavior. That's how the game works.

Without knowing very much about walker behavior, it is possible to design housing blocks so that the service-providing walker from key buildings (such as markets) goes by the houses on some or all of its walks. It is also possible to use trial-and-error (which you have apparently done) to place buildings so their walker behavior is more to your liking.

As for market buyers not "finding" a warehouse, my guess is that is caused by a mistake on your part. If you have a specific problem getting a market buyer to go to a warehouse, I encourage you to start a new thread (or add a reply to an old thread on the same subject) in this forum and give us details. We'd be happy to help you figure it out.

Hi there. I know this might sound stupid, but here goes... I am playing Caesar III on my Netbook, and I am on the 2nd mission. I completed the mission but I pressed the wrong button by accident and now I don't know how to go to the next mission/level... Please help...

Hi alex0801, welcome to Caesar III Heaven.

Please make all posts in an appropriate thread. If you don't see a thread which applies to your question(s) or comment(s), then create a new thread. I'll reply here since this is where you posted, but if you have anything else to say, do not reply here (unless it is relevant to 'Links to Caesar III Heaven’s most useful threads').

You haven't said what happened when you "pressed the wrong button", so I can only guess at what to suggest. If you are still playing the mission, then I'd guess that you pressed either the button that lets you play for 2 more years after victory or the button that lets you play for 5 more years after victory. I'll assume that that is what happened.

Perhaps the easiest way to go on to the next mission would be to load a saved game that you made right before the victory screen then let the city run until you get the victory screen again. (I recommend making frequent saved games with unique names, for several reasons.) But perhaps you didn't bother to make such a saved game.

Another way would be to play for the extra 2 years or 5 years that you selected. It might not take very long.

Or you could replay the mission. Winning might not be too hard since you've done it already.

You could try the victory cheat. (I think the victory cheat is: click on a well to get the well information window, press K while pressing ALT, get rid of the well information window, and press V while pressing ALT, but that might not be quite right.) I don't know if the victory cheat will work when you've selected to play for 2 or 5 extra years, but if it doesn't work you could start replaying the mission and then use the victory cheat.

If I may make a suggestion to Brugle.

You need to relax a little and stop acting quite so arrogant. You may have been playing this game for a long time and may know a lot about it, but I have looked at some of your earlier posts and back then you had many ignorant questions just as I have and as some of these other players have as well.

Remember that everyone who plays Caesar or any of the other games like it has to play it for the first time, just like you did. You seem to insult players for not knowing as much as you and that is the wrong way to approach advice.

I have asked for advice in these forums and have been basically insulted and berated by you, more than once. I did not appreciate it. For example, one time, I suggested a method of fighting battles in one post and you accused me of cheating. That was uncalled for. I never have and never would cheat.

I am not questioning your skill or knowledge in this or any other game, which I am sure is quite extensive, I am only asking you to be a little more polite and understanding to players who may not have as much experience as you.

Please try to control your ego and try to help players, such as myself, and many many others, who may not know as much of the intricate details of the game.

We did not come here to be belittled. We came here for help with some relatively difficult games. I have read many threads and posts by many different people, and you are the only one who seems to have this "better than you" attitude.

Please try to control what you say a little better. I think people will take you and your advice more seriously that way and will respect you more for it.

I am only trying to better these boards for everyone. We are after all only trying to have a good time and noone needs to be insulted to have a fun, whether you intended to do so or not.

I have read a large number of your posts and I have a great deal of respect for you as a player and as a "technician" of these games. But please refrain from making newer players seem stupid. None of them are, or else they would not be playing this game in the first place.

Any one of us who has played this game for 10+ years would also have a huge supply of knowledge, as you do, but try to remember that the majority of us have not done so.

Basically what I am saying is be more polite instead of condescending.

Sorry about the rant, but I felt it was needed. Everyone else seemed to ignore what was going on and I could not.

joew771,

Please make all posts in an appropriate thread. In this case, I'd consider the appropriate thread to be one with an example of the behavior you criticize. If you don't want to clutter up that thread with side issues, then creating a new thread might be best. But I'll answer your questions here.

If I may make a suggestion to Brugle.

You need to relax a little and stop acting quite so arrogant.

You don't know me very well. This is one of my favorite ways to relax.

If you consider something I said to be arrogant, please quote it and/or indicate where it comes from and explain why you think it's arrogant.

I have looked at some of your earlier posts and back then you had many ignorant questions

True. How is that relevant? Much of what we do here is answering questions from new players. Much of the rest is answering questions from somewhat more experienced players.

Something that may be relevant is that some of my posts contain errors (although I try to make that a very small fraction of my posts), as I indicated in reply #21. I don't mention that fact in every post, since I consider it obvious that we all are fallible.

You seem to insult players for not knowing as much as you

Again, if you have an example of what you consider to be insulting behavior, please show and explain it.

I ... have been basically insulted and berated by you, more than once.

Once again, if you have examples of what you consider to be insulting and berating behavior, please show and explain them.

For example, one time, I suggested a method of fighting battles in one post and you accused me of cheating.

Finally, an example (although no indication of where it's from or why you consider it to be insulting and berating).

I don't have a good memory, so I may be mistaken, but the only time I recall discussing fighting with you is in my response to the 4th quote in reply #10 of New housing block style?. In that response, there is no indication or suggestion that I consider you to have cheated. I did say that your playing style makes the mission easier, that I enjoy playing differently, and "to each his own". I do not consider playing in ways different from my preferences to be cheating, except in very rare cases (and even then, I would probably use words like "some players would consider that to be cheating").

Warning: some forumers do consider playing in ways different from theirs to be cheating. For example, more than once I've heard the practice of "fencing" in wolves (or hyenas in Pharaoh), which I've often done, called cheating.

I am only asking you to be a little more polite and understanding

Sigh. An example and explanation of what you consider to be my impolite and misunderstanding behavior would be nice.

Please try to control your ego and try to help players

Again--examples and explanations of what you consider to be my uncontrolled ego or my not trying to help, please.

you ... have this "better than you" attitude

Once again, an example and explanation of what you consider to be my "better than you" attitude would be appreciated.

Please try to control what you say a little better.

Perhaps you could give us an example and explanation of what you consider to be my lack of control?

please refrain from making newer players seem stupid

Maybe you could give us an example and explanation of what you consider to be my making newer players seem stupid. All of us are ignorant of most things, and I try to gauge my responses to the knowledge of the player, but sometimes I mistakenly judge a player to have less experience than is the case. I could preface many of my statements with "you may already know this, but in case you don't", but that would be a major waste of my (and any reader's) time. Most people aren't so thin-skinned to take my misjudgement of their experience to be a slur on their character.

played this game for 10+ years ... but try to remember that the majority of us have not done so

My memory often fails, but I don't think I've forgotten that. An example and explanation of what you consider to be my failure to remember that most forumers haven't played the game for 10 years would allow me to consider your criticism of this point.

be more polite instead of condescending

For what I hope is the last time, an example and explanation of what you consider to be condescending behavior would be appropriate.

Sorry about the rant

I usually don't object much to a rant, if it has some substance.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 02-04-2012 @ 03:00 PM).]

You want some examples, so here they are.

From your last post.

"Please make all posts in an appropriate thread. In this case, I'd consider the appropriate thread to be one with an example of the behavior you criticize."

That alone is an example of your arrogance. Instead of accepting any sort of criticism, you turn it back on me intead, as if I had done something wrong.

"24 2x2 houses isn't very many for a loop block. 6 fountains is a lot more than I like in a block (especially with only a moderate number of houses). These might not be a concern if housing efficiency isn't important to you."

That is a quote from you. That seems to be insulting to me. If you had left out the last sentence, you would not seem to be so arrogant.

"Other than for small casas (back when I was rather inexperienced), I never developed a general-purpose drop-in housing block."

This quote is also from you. Seeming to imply that I am inexperienced. I am not. I may not have analyzed the game as much as you have, but that does not mean that I do not have as much knowledge or experience as you in playing games similar to this.

Those are only 2 examples from the 2 posts I have made.

There are many other examples of you being just as arrogant with others that I will not bother to quote.

There is no question that you know more than most of the people that post here, but that doesn't mean that you should be demeaning to them.

Other people who know as much or nearly as much as you have answered without the same attitude of superiority that you have shown. I have learned from them and respect them. You have only shown that you want to be better than everyone else. You may or not be, but a little humility goes a long way.

I also couldn't help but notice that you promote your saved cities, usually with an air of condescension. I suggested a block that include 10 or so palaces, whereupon you immediately mentioned your city of 300 or whatever palaces, with no mention of my block, only using the opportunity to talk about yourself. Others actually commented on my design and gave useful feedback, but you took the chance to once again try to prove how superior you are to everyone else.

If you are here to help people, then do that. Don't use this as an opportunity to aggrandize yourself. You are not as great as you may think. Noone is.

I am only hoping that you will not treat others in the future the way you have treated me. Advice not heeded is advice not understood.

I really do respect your understanding of this game. Don't think I don't. I only want you to understand people as much as you do the game.

I am not expecting you to post a reply defending yourself, though of course you will. You can't help it. What you should do is say "Whatever!" and move on. Will you?

Quoted from joew771:

"Please make all posts in an appropriate thread. In this case, I'd consider the appropriate thread to be one with an example of the behavior you criticize."

That alone is an example of your arrogance. Instead of accepting any sort of criticism, you turn it back on me intead, as if I had done something wrong.

...Instead of accepting any sort of criticism, you turn it back on Brugle intead...

While I generally don't care much about organization personally, why did you feel the best place to bring this topic up would be a stickied thread that's completely unrelated?

"24 2x2 houses isn't very many for a loop block. 6 fountains is a lot more than I like in a block (especially with only a moderate number of houses). These might not be a concern if housing efficiency isn't important to you."

That is a quote from you. That seems to be insulting to me. If you had left out the last sentence, you would not seem to be so arrogant.

And I'd find it to be more "insulting" if he were to have left that statement out. This game is very much a sandbox where there's a significant amount of wiggle room when it comes to designing a working city. Achieving maximal efficiency is completely unnecessary in every mission. Hell, you barely even need a modest level of efficiency (On a non-existent absolute scale) to win most (If not all) missions.

For my style of play, I know that my distribution networks are far from the most efficient, but achieving maximal efficiency is, as I said, irrelevant to winning.

"Other than for small casas (back when I was rather inexperienced), I never developed a general-purpose drop-in housing block."

This quote is also from you. Seeming to imply that I am inexperienced. I am not. I may not have analyzed the game as much as you have, but that does not mean that I do not have as much knowledge or experience as you in playing games similar to this.

How is this insinuating that you're inexperienced? I relied on labour tents/shacks when I was inexperienced (Even when I was experienced, actually, I just dropped them on my most recent playthrough), but that implies nothing about other players that use that technique. I've also never, even when first starting out, relied on isolated "islands" for my missions. Again, this implies nothing about people who use that particular technique. All it does is indicate my style of play.

I also couldn't help but notice that you promote your saved cities, usually with an air of condescension. I suggested a block that include 10 or so palaces, whereupon you immediately mentioned your city of 300 or whatever palaces...

I do believe this was in response to the symmetry topic that was present. Upon you stating your particular definition of symmetry, Brugle changed his previous statement about his avoidance of symmetry and used that save as the example.

I am not expecting you to post a reply defending yourself, though of course you will. You can't help it. What you should do is say "Whatever!" and move on. Will you?

I am not expecting you to post a reply defending yourself, though of course you will. You can't help it. What you should do is say "Whatever!" and move on. Will you?

Ashery,
Thanks for your reply #34. I'm glad that you agree that players having different preferences is not inherently insulting to either of them. I was beginning to wonder if I had missed something.

Quoted from joew771:

"Please make all posts in an appropriate thread. In this case, I'd consider the appropriate thread to be one with an example of the behavior you criticize."

That alone is an example of your arrogance. Instead of accepting any sort of criticism, you turn it back on me intead,

Wrong. My request (to put posts in appropriate threads) had nothing to do with any criticism you made of me. It is one of several requests frequently made (by me and other forumers) of newcomers to this forum. For examples in this thread, see replies #12 and #30.

Quoted from joew771:

as if I had done something wrong

I wouldn't have used the term "something wrong"--I'd have used something like "an understandable minor mistake that many of us made when we were newcomers", but if you insist on "something wrong" then I won't argue.

Quoted from joew771:

"24 2x2 houses isn't very many for a loop block. 6 fountains is a lot more than I like in a block (especially with only a moderate number of houses). These might not be a concern if housing efficiency isn't important to you."

That is a quote from you. That seems to be insulting to me. If you had left out the last sentence, you would not seem to be so arrogant.

See Ashery's reply #34. I often (but not always) strive for high housing efficiency (for several personal reasons), but wouldn't dream of suggesting that that is better than however you like to play.

Quoted from joew771:

"Other than for small casas (back when I was rather inexperienced), I never developed a general-purpose drop-in housing block."

This quote is also from you. Seeming to imply that I am inexperienced.

See Ashery's reply #34. Again, we see that your so-called example is simply your ignoring what I say and imagining that I mean something completely different.

Quoted from joew771:

I also couldn't help but notice that you promote your saved cities,

I don't know what you mean by "promote". When I mention a saved game, it usually (but not always) is one of mine, because I know them. I have examined many cities by other players, but I don't remember them nearly as well as cities that I have spent hours designing and building. (Other forumers often, as expected, mention their own cities.)

Also, do you recall:

Quoted from joew771:

if Brugle would like to share his "loop" block ... I would still like to know what it is

You may not have liked my answer, but it was a reasonable answer to an unspecific request. If you are going to get upset by people doing what you ask, don't ask.

Quoted from joew771:

I suggested a block that include 10 or so palaces, whereupon you immediately mentioned your city of 300 or whatever palaces, with no mention of my block,

Wrong again. I discussed your villa/palace block in my first reply in your "New housing block style?" thread. In addition, the comments I made on your large/grand insula block also applied to your palace block.

I didn't mention my "300 or whatever" palace city until you requested information about my blocks, and it was strictly to suggest that you not look at it but instead look at my older cities which have palaces.

The second time I mentioned my "300 or whatever" palace city was also not immediately after you discussed your palace block. Why do you say things that can so easily be shown to be false? As for why I mentioned it, see Ashery's reply #34.

Quoted from joew771:

I am not expecting you to post a reply defending yourself, though of course you will. You can't help it. What you should do is say "Whatever!" and move on. Will you?

First you state ("of course") that I will do one thing, then ask if I will do something else. I have no interest in trying to figure out which (if either) you really mean.

I don't know if you could call this post a defense. I simply pointed out that your accusations (arrogance, insulting you, berating you, accusing you of cheating, being impolite, having an uncontrolled ego, belittling you, having a "better than you" attitude, being out of control, making newer players seem stupid, not remembering that some players haven't played C3 for 10+ years, being condescending, not accepting criticism, implying you are inexperienced, wanting to be better than everyone else, trying to prove how superior I am to everyone else, aggrandizing myself, thinking I am greater than I am, mistreating you, not being able to help myself, etc.) are, as far as anyone can tell, strictly products of your imagination (and often contradict what I actually said).

As for the future, if you continue to make content-free accusations, I won't respond. (If you make an accusation that appears to have some substance, I will probably thank you.)

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 02-10-2012 @ 06:39 PM).]