Shaun, I hereby decree you to be 'Grand Pooba Tester of Post-Patch Emperor'! They really should have had you on the patch team...

update: monument completed Dec614 - mission completed Jan614 just under 6 years

Gweilo;
Thanks again for the compliment.
(wanders off to research Grand Pooba)

[This message has been edited by shaun (edited 09-12-2003 @ 05:28 PM).]

I am adding this to the patch bug report, but I believe this bug has probably been in the game since its initial release.

Bug with Profit-per-Year Goal and Production-per-Year Goal when the Time Limit Goal is used

If you are playing a mission with both a time limit goal and either a profit-per-year goal or a production-per-year goal, the game will not recognize the fulfillment of the profit/production goal(s) if you wait to complete them in the LAST year of the time limit.

[This message has been edited by Gweilo (edited 03-24-2004 @ 09:02 AM).]

Military Walls can be built on "Animal Habitates" (spawning points).

This can be used to eradicate all but one newly spawned predator (alligator or salamanders per prey point). One predator is spawned at the begining of the month but it is eradicated towards the end of the month and replaced with a newly spawned predator the next month (actual spawn cycles is not monthly but a number of game days close to a month). A military wall has to be built on ALL predator type (alligator or salamanders ) Animal Habitate points. Doesnt work on the predators that ignore military walls(panda/vulture/gobi bear/tiger). There is a trick to getting it to work quickly > clear the wall from the undo quene.

Is Could also be useful for prey management. Anyone looking at some of my cities with prey know I use a little trick which prehaps can use military walls at a reduced cost. I did I'll test it out sometime in the future.

[This message has been edited by shaun (edited 09-13-2003 @ 00:54 AM).]

Deleting a Labor Camp that still has a worker "going to" or "working" will delay monument by 3~4 months. Problem has not come up with Guilds as I usually don't delete them. I do delete the Camps when no longer needed(sometimes I'm impatient) to make room for guilds needing the rock feng shui.
This is better than years/if ever, but still not acceptable(IMO).
And before anyone asks the Emporer.exe version is 1.0.1.0
dated Friday, February 14, 2003, 12:19:04 PM.
{edited to remove dead links}

added PS:
After getting Xi Wang Mu in the city I had her get a Panda. During this time only 3(closest) of the 6 Labor Camps(working/fully employed) were providing laborers to the monument. The monument is across the river from the city connected via ferries. There may be a restriction in Mu's monument speedup influence when dealing with ferry connections or some sort of problem with those Labor Camps. After getting Mu to the other side of the river during the wood phase the carpenters guilds (4) provided the full compliment of carpenters expected from Mu's speedup. Labor restrictions during the second dirt phase prevented me from testing Mu's benefit on the 3 problematic Labor Camps.
Mission completed in less than 3 years
PSS:
Further testing showed that there is no problem with the Labor Camps (all worked given the opportunity ). During the dirt hauling phase less than 8 dirt carriers(going to/on monument) were on the map at any time. The tampers had up to 12 (4 of which returned not being needed) going to/on monument. Carpenter guilds(4) spawned 4 carpenters even with Mu on the other side of river.
Perhaps the monument phases were too small to get the fully expected Laborer count. I wasted money on the extra Labor Camps. And to top it off I didn't have the employees to realistically utilize more than 3 Labor Camps.
PSSS:
Sui/Tang mision 7 (Chang-an2) having a Large Palace gave me another opportunity to look at the Labor Camp behavior. Mu has no/little effect on the dirt haulers spawn interval which is every 2~4 days(32days/month). The Labor Camp that is closest to the monument and having an available worker gets the assignment. The result of having a Labor Camp immediately opposite of the monument entry point is that only that Labor Camp spawned workers for the first 25% of the dirt hauling phase; 2 Labor Camps provided haulers upto 60%; and the 3rd Labor camp finally spawned haulers for the rest of that dirt phase. Tampers were provided in excess of what was needed by 4 Labor camps.

Mission 6 and the Great Wall are on my replay list for this dynasty when I finish it.

[This message has been edited by shaun (edited 11-25-2003 @ 04:18 PM).]

Suggestion to fix Great Wall worker behavior
remove code linking it to normal monument behavior (home tile touch >assignment to work area >return to home tile >released from monument behavior).
Link there behavior to the Canal code instead. I havn't fully tested it but it seems the canal behaviors are different.

[This message has been edited by shaun (edited 09-17-2003 @ 09:05 AM).]

{edited}
Complaint:
Price increase/decrease events have no effect on 'acceptable' (doesn't turn red) minimum/maximum prices. The minimum/maximum import/export price stay the same pre/post event. The maximum price range increases with the "Increase Price Event" but the cities consider the newer upper range as 'unacceptable' (red).

Gweilo's 'Trader for the Great Khan' is the campaign I'm having fun with. In it there is a small variable price increase and later a bigger decrease for Jade. Kashgar minimum selling price never wavers from the standard 95 cash. Setting the maximum import price to 94 results in no sales after the "standard" price (including increases and decreases events) would have been 83 cash.

When a city "greets world" I opened trade and the Salt 'acceptable' maximum price was uneffected by the previous increase price event. maximum acceptable price was 80 cash (Playing at VHard - limits maximum to 200% of original standard [40cash], playing at lower difficulty levels you'll get higher acceptable maximum prices).

The only effect MAY be the favor +/- for non-stardard export pricing. 'MAY' because the cities acceptable ranges do not seem to change from the global/original 'standard price' set in the campaign editor.

The only way I will know for sure is to cause a 'price increase' that doubles the original price. Charging the highest acceptable price (at VHard) and see what happens.

follow up:
Carved Jade (230cash)
Price Increase (95cash)
Diff Level = VHard

selling price of Carved Jade changed after increase:
255 = Apathetic (111%)
270 = Displease (115%)
280 = Hostile (breaks off trade within 6 months)(120%)
Wheat(24loads) and millet (24loads) were also being traded but at stanard prices.
The effects are little different then without the price increase event.

Conclusion:
Price Increase/Decrease events serve little purpose.

[This message has been edited by shaun (edited 09-23-2003 @ 02:55 AM).]

Interesting testing you are doing there. I am able to play that campaign at 'VH' and when a price increase occurs, I can raise the selling price by that same amount and it doesn't turn the price red (or cause a favor drop). Maybe I am missing something you are doing differently.

I didn't spend alot of time testing all the other cases you did, but I could swear these events worked better pre-patch. The listed Imperial Standard Price never changed, but the buying/selling prices could be adjusted by the amounts of the event without impacting anything.

[This message has been edited by Gweilo (edited 09-22-2003 @ 07:49 AM).]

There is at VHard:
~10% window of acceptable price gouging (short term measured in years).
~5% for long term or indefinite (your favor acquiesces toward 50 yearly at about the same pace the gouging lowers it).

Double standard price before it turns red.
ie:
Starting standard price is 40cash.
Its red level is 81cash.

Small increases/decreases within the 10% window are not a reliable means of testing the events effectiveness.

I havn't tested whether the "standard price" is changed, by the +/- price events, in next mission of a campaign. If the standard price is uneffective then +/- price events have "NO" use (IMO).

PS: Have you read that Sierra has temporarily suspended plans for Great Empires 3?
I wonder why.

[This message has been edited by shaun (edited 09-23-2003 @ 03:05 AM).]

--PS: Have you read that Sierra has temporarily suspended plans for Great Empires 3?
I wonder why.--

Just curious. What is Great Empires 2, much less 3? An expansion pack not yet released? I'm a bit confused.

[This message has been edited by quakeii (edited 09-22-2003 @ 09:10 AM).]

Great Empires is a collection of Impression city building games.

Great Empires 2 Includes:
Caesar 3
Pharaoh
Cleo (Pharaoh expansion)
Zeus
Poseidon (Zeus expansion)

Great Empires 3 was to add Emperor to the list

So far as I understand it, they've cancelled GEC3 but no reason has been given.

Laying/pulling roads across ruins is permitted (not directly on ruins), it charges you for ALL the road tiles (including the ruin tiles), but no roads are built on the ruins. (Ya, I get real cheap sometimes).

No notification of troops returning from a "rivals" request for troops event unless the troops were defeated. No favor increase for being a nice neighbor.
Is this going to be another event I should Ignore?

Gweilo;
You really know how to cause frustration (trader for the Great Khan) with those troop requests from Xia. Then the scoundrels announced they were going to invaded me and still wanted troops for there defense. Gads, I was chuckling for few minutes on the Irony.
I got the 4000 cash/30 salt goals fulfilled Feb1208, without trying (VHard/no elite). I've only speed-played beyond Feb1207. Im rethinking fulfilling any of the troop requests.
I'll see if there is a favor drop as a result.
Trade requested after refusal of troops request. No noticable favor decrease but Trade shuts down within ~year. Since events arn't chainable/conditional it was probably unrelated. It would be good to have conditional eventing.

[This message has been edited by shaun (edited 09-24-2003 @ 04:59 PM).]

Shaun, I exploited the bug with the 'military request' event throughout that campaign. I found that it fires for a rival city (contrary to what the manual says). In my testing, I have seen no appreciable favor change for the requesting rival city, regardless if the troops are sent or not, and regardless if the troop level sent is enough to fulfill the request (you have to guess). (Usually) the event doesn't even come up in the message log history for that city! The only part about it that I've seen work is that the player will get some free weapons if they send some troops (regardless of success or failure), and their troops can gain an experience stripe on their banner.

There are really two factions within Xia Xia that are interacting with the player in the campaign. I didn't have space enough in the splash screens to explain it, although it is somewhat implied. You have the Xia Xia monarchy (who requests your military aid from the attacking Mongols), and you have independent Xia Xia bandit gangs (who send raiding parties against your city).

The 'trade shuts down' event with Xia Xia in 1207 CE is scripted. It fires then to model how war has an adverse effect on trade. It's followed later with a 'city becomes inactive' event, to simulate the temporary chaos of Xia Xia's surrender to Genghis Khan in 1209. When things settle down in a few months (after a few executions and acceptance of vassalage) a 'city becomes active' event fires for Xia Xia and it recommences interaction. As you can tell, I like to string together different events to model a specific effect.

I could tell you more specific information about these events and the trade-stoppage events within this campaign, but if I do it will cross the line into 'spoiler' territory. I will be happy to do it, if you wish (we can use private email if you prefer). Another option is for you to read the 'TFGK_Readme.txt' file. It explains more about these specific events, but it also reveals spoiler info.

[This message has been edited by Gweilo (edited 09-24-2003 @ 06:22 PM).]

Im not much of a history buff so I don't know the dates of actions. I would rather be surprised a bit as I move through the missions. While I speed through the next year occasioinally, its to catch the big mistakes.
I'm at Mar1209 most everything is going well.
Jan1207/Feb1208 - 30 salt goal completed.
Jan1208/feb1209 4000cash goal completed (elected to do a little extra farming in 1207, just in case its useful).

A most enjoyable campaign that goes beyond the simpleness of the carrier missions.

[This message has been edited by shaun (edited 09-24-2003 @ 08:35 PM).]

If you like surprises, you may find a few in the later missions of the campaign.

As you know by the bug I reported earlier in this thread, you made a wise move by completing the profit/year goal and the production/year goal before the last year of the mission's time limit.

edited to not cause unneeded offtopic post

I submitted the saves to the Download Center

The temple complex lists 15 stone. I begged 3 stone and bought 12 and still had 1 stone left. The deliveries were 4/4/4/2. Another minor error.

[This message has been edited by shaun (edited 10-04-2003 @ 05:07 PM).]

Followup to Pricing Problems
Info:
Going to the next mission in a multi mission campaign results in prices being at Original Standard Price as set in the editor. No effect is realized by previous missions' Price Increase/Decrease events.

Info:
The commerce ministry "Max Pay Price" originally defaults(start of new campaign) to 110% of standard price, but is 200% of standard price on following missions. Previous mission played at VHard.
I dont know if previous mission difficulty level makes any difference. Someone that plays at Normal may get 300% as "Max Pay Price" on following missions if my suspicions are correct.

bug:
In following missions, the highest price you can charge(not red) is 110% of standard price.

I think the price data is being acquired from the incorrect data source.
should be
var(2) = data(1+1)
var(3) = data(1+2)
but the reality is
var(2) = data(0+1)
var(3) = data(0+2)
As the wrong data is being acquired the entire variable pricing system is broken. Its just luck that its still usable; data(0) being the standard price, data(1) being the modified price. This is effecting the pricing structure of follow-on missions within Trading Station and Commerce Ministry.

[This message has been edited by shaun (edited 09-26-2003 @ 08:14 AM).]

Once again, good show on your testing, Shaun.

To be honest, I knew the trade prices were reset to the Imperial Standard price between missions, I just assumed it was a feature of the game so I never reported it. That's why you see recurring price increase/decrease events for the same commodities throughout the different missions in my custom campaigns.

Your in-depth analysis of this is interesting, and it probably is a bug, although a small one.

Revising my opinion on "military requests from rival" event
The "military request from rival" event does have a useful purpose. Abate, special circumstances.

Quoted from Gweilo post 39:

Indeed you did. In the third mission, last year, I found that there is in fact a lowering of "Favor" only if a request for becoming an ally is granted before the "military request from rival" event has expired.

It made for an interesting twist:
I had slowly built up my favor with Xia to admiring (breifly).
Requested to become an Ally shortly after they announced an invasion.
Only to have their Favor drop from Cooperative to Sympathetic because of the first refusal to military request.
Sent a gift of Stone.
Stone arrived the same time as the second refusal to military request was acknowledged.
Favor remained at Sympathetic.

I learned a lot from the "Trader for the Great Khan" missions; about the interactions of various eventing with Trade status, Ally status, Trade shutdown, Cease contact, City conquered, and military requests from rivals.

[This message has been edited by shaun (edited 10-06-2003 @ 02:32 AM).]

That twist was interesting. The Military Request is really loony!

The event scripting in that campaign was the culmination of everything I've learned in the last year. Some of the more interesting aspects of events that a player doesn't see during gameplay are touched on in the 'TFGK_Readme.txt' file, which you probably read. I decided to go into some depth to help other campaign designers (hopefully at least a few won't throw up their hands in total frustration) :-P

There is a miscalculation to the negative desirability blocking effects of walls.
This is effecting Inspector Upgrade in combination with weaponsmith. I suspect other building combinations but Im not interested in exploring the issue.

{edited to remove dead links}

[This message has been edited by shaun (edited 11-25-2003 @ 04:16 PM).]

Spy Reversed

issue:
All Reversed Spy "messages" get changed to the City that the last Reversed Spy came from (or "Other City" when reloading a savegame).

info:
It seems that the "free spy" now has a much longer send off time period (at least 24 months, perhaps indefinite).

minor bug: (feature as its very helpful)
All spys to a specific city are free once ONE spy has been reversed (agrees to work for you, not pay 800 cash) from that city. I had 3 spys reversed from 3 differant cities and was able to send upto 3 free spys to each (2 cities had 1 spy previous to sending the free spies). Note: You can send dozens of free spies to each city but only 3 spies will be active.
{edited to remove dead links}

[This message has been edited by shaun (edited 11-25-2003 @ 04:15 PM).]

@Shaun,

Hi,
Let me get this straight (sorry for being slow ); If i catch a spy from say, city X (post-patch), then all later spies i send to that city are free??

PS: & if so, does this get correctly calculated in year-end budget??

Andyblast;
Yes, provided the Reversed spy agreed to work for you; not pay the 800 cash.
There are 2 reversed spy messages of which I was only looking into the former case; not the 800 cash payoff.
{edited the previous post to clarify}

To send a spy you must have a positive cash balance in the treasury (no credit allowed even if the spy is free). A city with 3 spys already working it; will not have the Spy option (3 spy limit). Sending more than 3 spys is possible but only 3 will be active (I have no real idea about extra spys getting quened or canned - I suspect they replace an older spy which gets auto-retired).

I don't know about the budget calculation. I have noticed some inconsistancies in "Last year" and "Currrent year" reports. I havn't fully looked into the issue.

[This message has been edited by shaun (edited 10-16-2003 @ 07:18 PM).]