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Topic Subject: Humble Hetepsenusret
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posted 01-30-22 07:47 ET (US)   
I want to continue my family history, but don't feel like fighting Hyksos chariots, so it's time for Hetepsenusret. (Finishing will leave me with only 3 family history missions unbuilt: Khmun, Byblos, and Rowarty.) Hetepsenusret has lots of space and can produce grain and straw (from floodplain and meadow), fish, game meat (from birds), clay, reeds, and wood. It requires Culture 80, Prosperity 80, Kingdom 75, 12000 people, a grand brick pyramid complex, a large brick pyramid, a mausoleum, and burial goods. Initially, there are no sources of beer, linen, or limestone, which must become available later.

My Hetepsenusret will be humble: not completed quickly, only a little over the required population, the minimum Culture, and no personal funds or debt or "rescue" gift. (It will have Prosperity 100 and probably Kingdom 100, but those are too easy to be a concern.) I will use Cleopatra with many of my typical peaceful mission personal goals, including Very Hard difficulty, all roads (including the rerouted Kingdom road) connected in the final city, and no festivals or blessings.

Beginning the mission will be difficult, with only 850 Db left after opening the Dakhla Oasis route. The wage rate will be at least 30 Db (which I have always observed before, but it hasn't been important until now).

All houses will have physician coverage, so health will end up high--my guess is excellent. The plan is to have a small population (but enough to make money and construct the monuments at a reasonable pace), then grow the population only as needed. I hope there will be less than 12000 people as we approach the end of the mission.

Building Hetepsenusret without future history could be interesting, but I don't feel like doing that either. Instead, I will look at completed Hetepsenusrets to see trade routes and quotas (which will be my only use of future history) and will design the city in advance. This allows another goal: no deleting anything that I build.

SPOILERS from here on.
Replies:
posted 01-30-22 07:51 ET (US)     1 / 30  
Eventual Trade Routes and Quotas

* Water *
Abu (max 2 ships):
sell 1500 straw 2500 flax 1500 linen 1500 gems 15 granite 40 sandstone
buy 2500 clay 1500 pottery 2500 reeds 4000 papyrus
Waset (max 2 ships):
sell 1500 clay 1500 pottery 25 plain stone 40 limestone 15 granite 1500 copper
* Land *
Baki (max 2 caravans):
sell 1500 gems 1500 copper 40 sandstone
Dakhla (max 2 caravans):
sell 2500 bricks
buy 1500 linen 2500 jewelry 2500 papyrus
Itjtawy (max 3 caravans):
sell 2500 pottery 2500 linen 2500 papyrus 40 limestone
buy 2500 beer
Knossos (max 2 caravans):
sell 2500 fish 1500 pottery 2500 olive oil
buy 1500 wood 2500 papyrus
Menat Khufu (max 3 caravans):
sell 4000 barley 25 plain stone 40 limestone
buy 1500 bricks
Men-nefer (max 2 caravans):
sell 2500 pottery 2500 papyrus
buy 2500 bricks 2500 barley 2500 beer 2500 jewelry
Mycenae (max 2 caravans):
sell 2500 weapons 1500 pottery 2500 wine 1500 copper
buy 4000 game meat 2500 papyrus
Qadesh (max 1 caravan):
sell 1500 ivory 1500 wood 1500 copper
buy 1500 linen 1500 papyrus
Rowarty (max 2 caravans):
sell 1500 meat 1500 straw 2500 bricks 1500 pottery 4000 barley 4000 beer 2500 linen 2500 papyrus
buy 1500 gems 1500 copper 15 sandstone

In the final city, I expect to buy close to what I want from every city except Rowarty. Buying moderately from Rowarty, there should be enough papyrus (including around 6000/year from local reeds), beer (from barley), and linen (some from flax) to keep all schools, libraries, senet houses, and mortuaries supplied without using long (forced) walkers. (A zoo will be supplied local straw and local game meat.) All housing blocks will be loop blocks.

Housing

There is enough beer, and I love to eat, so the poorest houses will be spacious residences. (While there might be enough linen to make the poorest houses fancy residences, I don't feel like trying.) Just for fun, there will be at least 1 house of every type from spacious residence through palatial estate. Everyone will eat fish. Some will eat grain, others will eat game meat, and palatial estate residents will eat both.

Also for fun, every house will have both school and library coverage, which means extra papyrus makers delivering to distant buildings. And every house will be registered for tax.

I think that 5 housing blocks will sufficient: 3 on the N land mass, 1 on the SE land mass, and 1 on the SW land mass. For even more fun, I may build a monument on each large land mass.

Personal Goals

The last 13 goals are for the final city:
* No future history except trade routes and quotas
* Nothing I build is deleted
* Very Hard difficulty
* No personal funds, debt, rescue gift, or cheats
* No festivals and no blessings
* No long (forced) walks that do anything useful
* Wage rate at least 30 Db
* Population below 13000
* Culture 80 (the requirement)
* Prosperity 100
* Spacious residences are the poorest houses
* At least 1 house of each type better than common residence
* All houses have school and library coverage
* All houses are registered for tax
* Shows in all entertainment venues at least part of the time
* Palace, mansion, temple complex, and best houses are close together
* Schools, libraries, mortuaries, senet house, and zoo are supplied
* Regular traffic goes through the festival square
* All bazaars and water supplies are upgraded
* Adequate defense
* All roads, including the rerouted Kingdom road, are connected


There are several decisions I haven't made yet. It will take me a while to design Humble Hetepsenusret.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 01-30-2022 @ 07:58 AM).]

posted 01-31-22 10:21 ET (US)     2 / 30  
Been part of this forum almost 20 years now (somewhere in 2003 is when I joined), but almost never commented.

Now I feel I should.

I followed your "slow" progress along the dynasties, long after I've finished the game (never harder than normal), I don't have the time, or better yet the patience for meticulous planning.

Finally I can watch you reach the ending, the incredible Hetep mission!

Even though I'm not relevant here in any way, I feel you should be commended for your dedication and perseverance in this game, and in particular your contributions in this forum.

Without you, helping TONS of players along the way, this community would not have come this far.

So I take a bow to you, sir! Cheers
posted 01-31-22 12:37 ET (US)     3 / 30  
Hi lettucefolk,
Over 18 years between your first 2 posts. Probably a record.
posted 02-04-22 18:05 ET (US)     4 / 30  
Some tentative plans.

Housing Blocks

The SE block will have 35 spacious residences. 2940 residents will eat 3360 fish/year and 3360 grain/year.

The SW block will have 34 spacious residences (and a mortuary). 2856 residents will eat 3264 fish/year and 3264 grain/year.

The NE block will have 22 spacious residences. 1848 residents will eat 2112 fish/year and 2112 game meat/year.

The Mid block will have 18 elegant residences and 11 spacious residences (and a mortuary). 2508 residents will eat 2784 fish/year and 2784 game meat/year.

The NW block will have 2 palatial estates, 1 modest estate, 1 of each type of manor, 7 fancy residences, and 2 elegant residences (and a mortuary). 1852 residents will eat 1992 fish/year, 1992 grain/year, and 312 game meat/year.

Total of 12004 residents in 136 houses consuming 13512 fish/year, 8616 grain/year, and 5208 game meat/year. (The zoo will also consume game meat.)

Food and Straw

There are two flocks of birds near floodplain in the west, one a bridge from the N land mass and the other a bridge from the SW land mass. I have had trouble hunting animals in multiple packs separated by a staffed ferry crossing, so only the birds near the N land mass will be hunted. 2 hunting lodges should catch most of those birds.

5 fishing wharves on the SE land mass will catch fish for the SE block. 6 fishing wharves on the SW land mass will catch fish for the other 4 housing blocks.

14 irrigated river-touching floodplain grain farms on the W side of the N land mass and 3 meadow grain farms will grow grain and straw. Grain storage will be far enough from floodplain farms to prevent a double reduction in fertility after a harvest. Since the floodplain is fairly wide (maybe 16 tiles), the flood will cover the farms unless it fails entirely. Large grain reserves will handle several consecutive flood failures.

To produce enough straw, excess grain should be destroyed. Therefore, grain reserves will be in granaries (not storage yards). I don't expect to run out of straw, but it wouldn't be a disaster--neither zoo nor brick production is crucial.

Military and Shipwright and Wood

1 wood cutter by the SE forest should be enough. The shipwright will be not too far away.

The chariot maker, recruiter, and academy will be fairly close to the wood cutter. 6 charioteer forts will be on all 3 large land masses. 2 towers in the NE marsh should protect some reed gatherers from hippos. (I don't think any other hippos will be troublesome.)

There will probably be 6 warship wharves and 2 transport wharves, in convenient places.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 02-04-2022 @ 06:50 PM).]

posted 02-06-22 13:07 ET (US)     5 / 30  
Not for lack of interest but for lack of anything of relevance to say.

Watching you, VAIA, tryhard, etc, made my efforts look pitiful.

Never needed to ask anything because frankly a good forum search solved all my issues.
posted 02-13-22 14:51 ET (US)     6 / 30  
More tentative plans. (Note: nothing has been designed yet except the locations of the bridge, hunting lodges, fishing wharves, floodplain farms, and dock.)

Bricks and Pottery and Clay

There will be 6 brickworks. The final city will sell bricks. Earlier, it will buy bricks, speeding up pyramid construction somewhat.

6 potters and 9 clay pits will produce just a little excess. Extra pottery will be sold to Abu. Clay will be accumulated, in case there is a request.

Beer

8 breweries will use imported barley (there should be plenty from Menat Khufu and Rowarty), and will produce enough beer if the 2 senet houses (in the NW and Mid blocks) use less than 1253 beer/year (which should be designable). For full efficiency, any brewery cart pusher can go to either senet house, then to the other senet house, then to the main beer storage yard, then return to the brewery before the next batch of beer is ready (which should be designable). Excess beer will not be sold in the final city.

Linen and Jewelry and Dock

The dock will be in the southernmost location on the north land mass with water on the dock's SW side. If the water entry and exit points are not both in the NE, and if Tempests are rare, then ships from a given city should visit the dock at least 3 times in most years. Waset ships will not trade in the final city, and the route might not be opened (if we get enough limestone from Itjtawy and Menat Khufu).

The main import from Abu ships will be flax, for 4 weavers. I think I can create a design to keep 3 mortuaries well supplied with 4 weavers, but a possible problem is a long delay at the ferry crossing. If Abu ships do not visit often enough, a mortuary might occasionally stop working for a few months--this should satisfy the personal goal of supplying mortuaries (although I prefer all buildings to be well supplied).

Abu (and/or Itjtawy and/or Rowarty) will sell a modest amount of linen. That linen will not be delivered (since the linen storage yard cart pusher will be trying to deliver a good that it cannot)--storage yards delivering to mortuaries can reduce the efficiency of weavers and increase linen imports (which I want to avoid, especially from Rowarty).

Abu (and/or Baki) will sell a small amount of gems, for a jeweler. Note: 3 Abu ships/year are enough even if the mortuaries are well supplied and Abu sells all of the linen and gems.

[Changed ", which will not be sold in the final city" to ". Extra pottery will be sold to Abu".]

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 06-12-2022 @ 06:33 PM).]

posted 02-21-22 17:32 ET (US)     7 / 30  
I haven't given up, just had a cold for the last week (which kept me from designing).

Food Storage

2 granaries will contain game meat. Excess game meat will be sold to Mycenae.

8 granaries will contain grain--1 near the NW block (closest to the farms), 2 near the SW block, and 5 near the SE block (farthest from the farms). When full, grain should last through about 6 consecutive flood failures.

In the final city, fish will be in storage yards. Most of the time, there should be enough food in granaries to prevent people from complaining about hunger. Fish will be set to "Import to maintain 0" after the Knossos trade route is open--until then, fish may be temporarily put in granaries.
posted 04-16-22 15:13 ET (US)     8 / 30  
Sorry about the long delay. Just days after feeling recovered, I caught another cold, which this time also infected my wife. It took a month before I felt able to design.

Work Camps

There are 7 work camps, near the floodplain farms, getting labor access from the NW block. 7 seems like a lot in the final city since there are only 14 floodplain farms, but more work camps should speed up pyramid construction (at least during site preparation).

NW Housing Block

The luxury housing block is built around a 44-tile rectangular loop. There was plenty of extra space, so there are lots of shrines. (I'm afraid that many shrines will be in industrial areas.) All houses have all entertainment.

The temple complex touches the loop's S corner. The mansion and palace are by the temple complex, 2 estates, and the stately manor. The other estate is by the temple complex and the elegant manor. An attractive city center, in my opinion.

Their location hasn't been selected yet, but putting the 4 weavers the maximum 100% efficient distance from the mortuary, they can be kept supplied by a single flax storage yard that is only 3 tiles from the dock. This was a pleasant surprise--I had guessed that flax delivery would be more complicated.
posted 05-05-22 14:05 ET (US)     9 / 30  
35 game years into this map, initially built a city with a little over 13k population which ran pretty well and hands off for about 15years, year 15-30. But then my people started getting old and retiring and I'm short workers, so I'm building 2 new worker neighborhoods with only the bare bones amenities to have ordinary cottages but after 5 years of this my population has swelled to over 16k. My goal was to complete this map in 50 game years and Pyramid construction is on schedule to make this deadline and my idea is to radically downsize the brickworks soon to make a library district so that I can get to 100 culture, but now I'm going to need at least 21 libraries to make that happen plus I'm going to have to find locations for 3 or 4 more pavilions. I'm wondering how high my population will balloon up to by year 50. Potentially 20k?

I did this map like 17 years ago, but that map file is on a PC long ago discarded, it's a fun one to play.

Uhhhh... look! I don't know what your problem is... but I simply cannot have students wandering the hallways during class, interrupting other classes and giving prophesies of a great plague. - Principle McVicker
Cornholio!
posted 05-06-22 20:35 ET (US)     10 / 30  
Now at year 46, population has swelled to 19k and I'm still 150 employees short with Culture at 80. I have enough housing this year to make that up by years end but I seem to be losing 150 employees a year net due to retirement and lack of teenagers entering the work force. I don't know if 100 culture is obtainable in these next 4 years. One course remaining on the pyramid complex and then the shave down to finish up so I should be done in just under 50 years. I'll need 8 more libraries to get full coverage. I am pleased by the stability of my giant city but that is probably the cause of my demographic problem.

Uhhhh... look! I don't know what your problem is... but I simply cannot have students wandering the hallways during class, interrupting other classes and giving prophesies of a great plague. - Principle McVicker
Cornholio!
posted 05-09-22 16:22 ET (US)     11 / 30  
I finished the map today, 610 months, 10 months over my goal of 50 years because the Pyramid Complex took almost 5 years to shave down instead of the 3 1/2 I had anticipated. Final pop, 21,400 or so, Culture, Prosperity and Kingdom all finished at 100.

I really tried to keep the population to 13,000 but by year 30 that became unworkable due to aging population. At the peak of production I had 18 Brickworks and was importing as well. Once the demand for bricks had been met I deleted 13 brickworks and the suppling claypits and slowly built up a library district in it's place at the base of the Pyramids. Around year 40 I became an importer of papyrus because of the demands of the schools and libraries eventually ate up the production on my 12 papermakers.

Not at all the humble Hetepsenustet, Brugle has planned but fun time none the less. Now on the Alexandria which looks like a very similar mission.

Uhhhh... look! I don't know what your problem is... but I simply cannot have students wandering the hallways during class, interrupting other classes and giving prophesies of a great plague. - Principle McVicker
Cornholio!
posted 05-09-22 17:58 ET (US)     12 / 30  
Great Cornholio,
Did you need over 13K people initially? I would have guessed that a smaller city would have supported 18 brickworks and related stuff (before aging became serious).
posted 05-10-22 13:42 ET (US)     13 / 30  
I had 10 palatial estates, 2000 pop and necessary infrastructure for those 2 housing blocks. 10 Papyrus makers, 4 reed gathers, 5 pottery works, 6 brewers, 5 weavers, 2 jewelers, 20 clay pits, 2 weapon smiths and 2 chariot makers and about a 15 work camps. I could have reduced the number of work camps once the foundations were finished but didn't. I had 2 carpenters, 6 stonemason guilds and 5 bricklayer guilds. My housing blocks have redundant services to ensure stability, probably not maximum efficiency.

Uhhhh... look! I don't know what your problem is... but I simply cannot have students wandering the hallways during class, interrupting other classes and giving prophesies of a great plague. - Principle McVicker
Cornholio!
posted 05-12-22 08:49 ET (US)     14 / 30  
10 Papyrus makers, 4 reed gathers, 5 pottery works, 6 brewers, 5 weavers, 2 jewelers, 20 clay pits, 2 weapon smiths and 2 chariot makers and about a 15 work camps. I could have reduced the number of work camps once the foundations were finished but didn't. I had 2 carpenters, 6 stonemason guilds and 5 bricklayer guilds.
Too many unnecessary building imo. From my experience in Hetepsenusret 1 Reed Gather can support 6 Papyrus Makers, so for 10 Papyrus Makers 2 Reed Gather are enough. Maybe you can add 1 extra because of Hippos and Reed's request. 1 jeweler is enough, because it can support 22 scribal houses. For military 1 chariot maker is enough and weapon smith is not necessary because weapon for burial's good can be imported near the end.

When building Hetepsenusret for speed, was a record at that time, I had only 5 bricklayer guilds, 4 stonemason guilds, 1 carpenter guild and 10 work camps during the loading phase. Actually 1 work camp for each bricklayer/stonemason's guild are enough, but I had 1 extra as reserve. They could load faster than limestone's import, although I've bought these stones since the 2nd year. Later I added 1 carpenter guild when building Mausoleum and 4 stonemason's guilds to make polishing the pyramids faster.

Btw the City had exactly 12k in the end and had 25 clay pits and 34 brick works during the busiest time. I started deleting some of them after the 12th layer of the grand pyramid complex was done. To produce enough straw the city had 40 flood plain farms in 3 groups (18 in NW, 10 in NE and 12 in SE) with 1 work camp in each group. These work camps were placed so, that they were not too far from the pyramid's entrance but still within 40 tiles to the furthest farm in each group. For 34 brick works 48 farms are needed, so I must import some from Rowarty.

About the ageing problem. I did a dirty trick once: set the Bazaar in a housing block stop buying pottery for a while. I didn't proud about it, but it was the only way I knew at that time and I didn't want to add more houses.

I think you know that Brugle oft write something like this: let the houses evolve in the beginning of the year, so that these houses will be full before the end of the year. The goal is to minimize the birth.

This gave me an idea: Why not let some houses have some free rooms in the end of the year, so that the city will have some extra newborns, those can be useful 20 years later?

Although this idea can't solve the problem entirely, but I think it can help.

Back to topic: On hard, 2000 db without Rescue Money, I could easily make the papyrus industries running in full speed since the beginning (5 PM, 1 RG, 1 SY) and sell 500 Papyrus on May/June (2000 in the 1st year). So Burgle's mission can be interesting especially for the 1st 5 years, because he will play on VH and without Rescue Money (only 1500 db and the buildings cost more)!
posted 05-12-22 11:05 ET (US)     15 / 30  
1 jeweler is enough, because it can support 22 scribal houses.
1 jeweler can support 23 manors but only 11 estates. Still, 1 is enough.
Why not let some houses have some free rooms in the end of the year, so that the city will have some extra newborns,
That is my plan: encourage births when I think the city is between 12 and 50 years from completion.
On hard ... I could easily make the papyrus industries running in full speed since the beginning ... Burgle's mission can be interesting especially for the 1st 5 years, because he will play on VH
Apparently at most 2 papyrus makers can be running at first. (See Serrataur's reply 17 of Hellish Hetepsenusret.) But it shouldn't take long to get them all running, unless a request is received fairly early.
posted 05-12-22 14:59 ET (US)     16 / 30  
I think I got caught off guard on the first reed request and put the 4th one down and a reed only storage yard to make it on time. There are several more requests for reeds after that and I always had a full storage yard ready for it. Not necessary but it made things easier, I didn't like having to stockpile reeds, interfering with Papyrus production. I also liked just letting Papyrus just run automatically as my primary export until the demand from the libraries and schools ate up my production, by then taxes were more than enough.

I cut one of the jewelers once I finished the burial provisions.

As for the military buildings, I thought the requests for troops would come a lot sooner, I had plenty of time to do everything with just one of each. I had 3 warships, 3 archers camps, 2 chariot camps, 1 infantry camp and 3 transports. I deleted the academy and replaced it with a Senet House and mothballed the workshops once they were no longer needed. Again could have just gone with Chariots and warships later in the game and didn't even need the transports.

I probably had way too many temples, but I thought that a forest of shrines looked stupid and unrealistic. Even still I had like 160 shrines decorating the city.

One option to deal with the aging population would have been to shift Health and Sanitation to last priority and let the blocks devolve to tents then shift back to first priority or delete water supplies in individual blocks for a less drastic approach. I decided not to do that because it seemed like cheating. It was my decision to go big after year 30, my regret is that the blocks looked like an afterthought and messed up the aesthetics somewhat. I could have done a better job on the design even though it turned out to be more realistic.

Uhhhh... look! I don't know what your problem is... but I simply cannot have students wandering the hallways during class, interrupting other classes and giving prophesies of a great plague. - Principle McVicker
Cornholio!

[This message has been edited by Great Cornholio (edited 05-12-2022 @ 11:14 PM).]

posted 05-13-22 02:54 ET (US)     17 / 30  
Apparently at most 2 papyrus makers can be running at first. (See Serrataur's reply 17 of Hellish Hetepsenusret.)
Interesting. I've read the post before, but forgot about it.
16 hut + 1 RG + 2 PM + 1 SY + 1 well = 727 db on VH (I've to add a well, because we need 38 workers for these 4 buildings but 80 people can give only about 32 workes. With a well we can have 3 2x2 sturdy huts and 1 2x2 crude hut, those have rooms for 104 people, those can give about 41 or 42 workers)

In my design I've to cut 3 old road's tiles and add 4 new = 33 db. And with 650 db to open the trade route and about 50 db for wage, total we need 1460 db. OK, it's doable, but very tight
But it shouldn't take long to get them all running, unless a request is received fairly early.
You're right. But I want to know, is it possible to import stones in 2nd year?

Damn! this makes me want to reinstall Pharaoh again
I probably had way too many temples, but I thought that a forest of shrines looked stupid and unrealistic. Even still I had like 160 shrines decorating the city.
I'm agree with you. I didn't like a wall of shrines. For me the combo Shrine-Garden-Shrine-Garden-.. outside housing blocks looks much better
posted 05-13-22 09:09 ET (US)     18 / 30  
a forest of shrines looked stupid and unrealistic
I didn't like a wall of shrines
I've received some criticism about the looks of my cities, but don't remember complaints about too many shrines close together. (My largest city, Itjtawy, has 271 shrines and I think it looks good, but obviously I'm biased.)
I've to add a well
A well would look silly to me. Humble Hetepsenusret doesn't allow deletion of anything I build.
1 RG + 2 PM + 1 SY ... we need 38 workers for these 4 buildings
True, but not all of the time--labor will be micromanaged. The reed gatherer might be turned OFF when the storage yard needs more workers.
we can have 3 2x2 sturdy huts and 1 2x2 crude hut
Probably not. Humble Hetepsenusret does not use future history (except eventual trade routes and quotas).
is it possible to import stones in 2nd year?
Not a concern in Humble Hetepsenusret.
this makes me want to reinstall Pharaoh again
Excellent.
posted 05-13-22 09:48 ET (US)     19 / 30  
The graphics card in my PC blew up at the start of the pandemic, C3 and Pharaoh are the only 2 games that work. Plan on getting a new PC this summer.

Uhhhh... look! I don't know what your problem is... but I simply cannot have students wandering the hallways during class, interrupting other classes and giving prophesies of a great plague. - Principle McVicker
Cornholio!
posted 05-15-22 09:35 ET (US)     20 / 30  
True, but not all of the time--labor will be micromanaged. The reed gatherer might be turned OFF when the storage yard needs more workers.
I forgot this trick. I did it before but with woodcutters in Hetepsenusret, turned them off when the workers were out and turned them on when the workers in the buildings.
Not a concern in Humble Hetepsenusret.
I know, I just think about the possibility to build Hetepsenusret for speed on VH
The graphics card in my PC blew up at the start of the pandemic, C3 and Pharaoh are the only 2 games that work. Plan on getting a new PC this summer.
Thanks God, my last PC with graphic card was dead 9 years ago, I was so addicted with MMOPRG at that time. I don't want to have a good PC, and I had a mixed mood, when I failed to install CIV6 on my laptop about 2 years ago. You know, in one side I wanted to test the game but in other side after testing it I couldn't stop to play.

Pharaoh is unique. My mood to play Pharaoh lasted usually 2-3 months, then took a long break, played again, uninstalled again and soon. But sometimes during the break I loved to draw city's layouts in excel, thanks to spoiler maps from ... (ah I forget who posted this tools in this forum).

The last city I drew is Hetepsenusret with 33.3k Population. I want to push everything near the limit. There are rooms for 37 Reed Gathers and Papyrus Makers combo (I have no idea how many will be needed), 17 Breweries, 19 Claypits, 8 Brickworks, 18 Potters, 53 Storeyards, 30-32 Fishing Wharfs, 60-70 floodplain farms, and soon.

The map and the calculation are almost done, just need some fine adjustments. Therefore I'm exiting to read Burgle's progress in his mission, and hope (like before) I can get some new inspirations before I start to build the city, especially how to develop the city efficiently (he is very good with this)

@Burgle: in the 1st reply you wrote:
In the final city, I expect to buy close to what I want from every city except Rowarty. Buying moderately from Rowarty, there should be enough papyrus (including around 6000/year from local reeds), beer (from barley), and linen (some from flax) to keep all schools, libraries, senet houses, and mortuaries supplied without using long (forced) walkers. (A zoo will be supplied local straw and local game meat.)
You mentioned Rowarty extra here.

In my plan Rowarty is also special. My city will need 9000 Beer yearly, 4000 Beer can I get from 4000 Barley from Menatkufu, so 5000 units Barley+Beer (of course 4000 Barley and 1000 Beer are the best) must come from Rowarty. I did a little calculation before: with all SYs (which do export and import) on the rerouted Kingdom's road each trader can visit the city 3.5 times yearly in average, so Rowarty can sell maximum 5600 units yearly.

The problem is, the city will import Linen and Papyrus too, which can be sold by Rowarty. There is also a plan to import some Meat, so that the Game Meat's consumption can be reduced a bit, because without these extra Meats, the Game Meat's consumption will be 7820 units/year (very close to max production). So I have to set the SYs so, that Rowarty must sell 4000 Barley first, then 1000 Beer and lastly (if possible) 600 Meats. Compare to other cities, only Rowarty's traders sell to the max (I mean from the capacity).

So what is special about your Rowarty?
posted 05-15-22 12:15 ET (US)     21 / 30  
I'm exiting to read Burgle's progress in his mission ... especially how to develop the city efficiently
It won't be soon. I am always slow, but the mental fog from colds has kept me from designing.

I will be trying hard to develop quickly only in the beginning, when money is tight.
without these extra Meats, the Game Meat's consumption will be 7820 units/year
That's around the maximum production from one herd (which is more than enough for Humble Hetepsenusret). If all roads are connected and a zoo exists, it is hard to efficiently hunt far-apart herds, but you may be able to get something from the second herd. (Bast's major blessing can greatly reduce the amount of food required, so I assume you are not going to have any festivals.)
So what is special about your Rowarty?
Nothing. The only thing Rowarty caravans must sell is some barley, although they may sell some papyrus and/or linen. During development I expect them to sell bricks. If there is a request for beer or straw or pottery, they may sell some.
posted 05-28-22 11:48 ET (US)     22 / 30  
without these extra Meats, the Game Meat's consumption will be 7820 units/year
That's around the maximum production from one herd (which is more than enough for Humble Hetepsenusret). If all roads are connected and a zoo exists, it is hard to efficiently hunt far-apart herds, but you may be able to get something from the second herd. (Bast's major blessing can greatly reduce the amount of food required, so I assume you are not going to have any festivals.)
I know it's close to the maximum production from one herd. Therefore my City will need some Meat imported from Rowarty. The fact that Rowarty has to sell 4000 Barley plus 1000 Beer and can sell Papyrus and Linen too gave me a headache to set the SYs properly. In theory my plan will work, but I don't know in practice.

To avoid the risk, last night I found a solution to my plan. First I replaced 5 Palastial Estates in a housing block with 6 Stately Manors so, that Game Meat's consumption (was necessary as the 3rd type of food) can be reduced. Then I changed the number of the 3 types of Residences in some blocks to get the same population of exactly 33332 People (the maximum population for 80 Culture Rating supported by 4 Senet Houses). The end result: the Game Meat's consumption is reduced from 7820 to 7040, cool.

Hunting from 2 spots won't work in Hetepsenusret, I tried before. At first glance the hunters will behave like the Reed Gatherers or Wood Cutters. They go together in a group to the nearest target, although only one will work on the target, the rest will go to the next nearest target. If the Reed Gatherers go to the nearest free Reed from their current location (I think the Wood Cutters behave like this too), the hunters will go to the nearest free Bird from their building. You can imagine what would happen.
posted 05-29-22 18:52 ET (US)     23 / 30  
Hunting from 2 spots won't work in Hetepsenusret, ... You can imagine what would happen
At first glance, if the lodges were built appropriately, they would produce more. I ran a quick test, building one hunting lodge just over the bridge from each bird flock (connecting all roads, going onto the floodplain and over the staffed ferry crossing) and the two lodges produced between 5100 and 5500 game meat every half-year for 8 half-years. (The technique was described by Plebus in reply 1 of 3 new speed record and 3 new blocks in the Saqqara section.)

However, there is a problem--a hunting lodge might deliver to the zoo, and at least one lodge will be far from the zoo. Therefore, it does seem better to hunt only one flock.
posted 06-12-22 18:37 ET (US)     24 / 30  
I caught a third cold, which didn't infect my wife but took me out for a while. So, only a little progress.

Exporting the bit of extra pottery to Abu ships in the final city should be OK, so I edited reply #6.

If fish storage yard(s) near wharves become full then wharf cart pushers may go a long ways, greatly cutting fish production for a while. My guess is that this would be OK--houses should store about 5 years of food, which could be enough time to recover--but I can't be sure, since with 2 fish production areas the analysis is too hard for me. Besides, I don't like to see wharves sitting idle for a considerable time. After several tries, I am finally happy with the SW fish industry's design. (The less productive SE fish industry should be easier to handle.)

In a housing block, related buildings (bazaars, physician/dentist/apothecary/mortuary, school/library, courthouse/tax collector) will be close together. Also, no house or entertainment stage will touch bare ground or unplazaed road.

Just for fun, I want to minimize architect posts.
posted 06-13-22 00:25 ET (US)     25 / 30  
Glad to hear you’re feeling better. Looking forward to seeing the continued progress on Hetep!
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