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Caesar IV Heaven » Forums » Caesar III: Game Help » Efficient Marble Docking in Londinium
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Topic Subject:Efficient Marble Docking in Londinium
Daearius
Pleb
posted 01-20-21 10:56 ET (US)         
I'm developing a Excell file with various info usefull for planning ahead cities. The file is based on empiric measures.

However I'm a bit disappointed by the Docks

My methodology
- I played londinium up to 200.000 Dn
- (GOG C3 version + Julius)
- Bulldozed everything
- Started to build minimum to run various measures.

What I found so far (Julius version of the game, maybe original C3 is different)

Marble Quarry
Real production => 4,6 cartloads/year
Useful distance from wharehouse => 66 units

However I fear knowing that is useless.

My first attemp is 11 Quarries + 1 Warehouse at maximum possible distance (which by mere coincidence is kingdom road in Londinium)

In this case to sell everything by sea, I need 3 docks (which are like 20 squares from warehouse)

However I think it may be more optimal (total cost or total number of workers)

to have just 1 Dock, with 1 Warehous, and more than 11 Quarries. That would make knowing the real production and distance of quarry useless, because Ehi.

"Just add quarries until production is more than sold units, and use surplus for large temples".

Just letting know, If anyone ever faced this problem and tried to maximize each resource in a particular map

Best regards.

Bye!

[This message has been edited by Daearius (edited 01-20-2021 @ 10:58 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 01-20-21 11:46 ET (US)     1 / 15       
Hi Daearius, welcome to Caesar III Heaven.
Julius version of the game, maybe original C3 is different
No, they are the same.
Marble Quarry
Real production => 4,6 cartloads/year
It should be 4.8 cartloads/year.
to sell everything by sea, I need 3 docks (which are like 20 squares from warehouse)
In the CCK Londinium, if all you are doing by sea is selling marble, a single dock even 20 tiles from a warehouse ought to be enough. If you are doing other things by sea, you'd probably need either to have a single dock that is more efficient (closer to the warehouse) or multiple docks.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 01-20-2021 @ 11:49 AM).]

mt7juans
Pleb
posted 01-20-21 12:45 ET (US)     2 / 15       
Hi, I've been a fan of Caesar 3 and in later years of Total War 2 Medieval War which involves growth scales that pushed me in figuring out 'e' natural growth in interpreting percentile city growth in actual turn based measurements. After a couple of maths forums helps generously provided, now it is second nature if the rate is known.
Your question entails how many ships are generated each year and just how much marble production 'scales' as your city is built. For Brugle provides all aspects of the game, I'll only say your initial production is 'half' of what your annual production will be in later years because even i the best of circumstances your marble production will start from zero until it reaches your set maximum level. The average will essentially be half during that interval, so should you aim to maximise your initial first years production trade quota, either you initiate two times the necessary amount of marble quarries and raze them down past the first year, or you just let it develop slowly.
On ships, they are much like farm workers they can travel a set amount of distance, so when you make a distant port, it is the same as the marble quarries that pick up with an initial delay of production, your trade ships will travel less each year and push you to meet deliveries in the later half of the year.
Daearius
Pleb
posted 01-20-21 15:55 ET (US)     3 / 15       
Here's how I measured marble production:

- Create N quarries
- When N quarries are started start counting(
- Quarries are all within 66 tiles from warehouse
- Quarries have 10 workers
- Quarries are started when 1 cartload already produced)
- When Dec Switch to Jan I start counting Cartloads
- Count for X years
- (Total counted cartloads)/(N*X) = marble production

In my case N = 11 and X = 5 yielded 4.63. Greater N and X more precise is the measure. For this map it is good approx.

- 10 Quarries not enough to sell everything
- 11 Quarries sell 15 ground and 30/34 sea + surplus

--------------------

The problem with the docks; I'm trying to figure out the absolute minimum number of workers required to sell all the marble to foreign traders.

Until now 1 thing is certain:
- 11 Quarries (at least) are required. (110 workers)
- 1 warehouse (6 workers)
- 1 dock (12 workers)

Configuration 1
11 x Packed Quarries
1 x Warehouse
3 x Docks

Total 110+6+36 = 152 workers

If less than 3 docks are used with configuration 1, ships starts to stack until eventually they get bored and come back without goods (even when warehouse is full the do not take back 12 marble), with only 2 docks I fail to sell more up to 30 marble by sea:



Configuration 2
11 x Packed Quarries
1 x Warehouse at 66 squares from quarries
1 x Warehouse near to the 2 docks (Getting goods from other warehouse)
2 x Docks

Total 110 +12 +24 = 146 workers

This one is working too, ships do not take the full load at first trip. However if selling only Marble I can sell as much as they can buy (I doubt this will work when selling other goods, but have to be tested)

Now trying with 1 dock and 1 warehouse only and eventually extra Quarries.


NEver mind, I think I found a bug :/

.Once I build a second warehouse the stop delivering to the first and deliver only to the second

[This message has been edited by Daearius (edited 01-20-2021 @ 05:16 PM).]

mt7juans
Pleb
posted 01-20-21 18:07 ET (US)     4 / 15       
You are stretching the warehouse workers too thin. They can deliver only so many cartloads, until dock workers can meet the shipment deadline challenges. Notice, your docks come with 3 workers that nearest warehouses lend an extra 1 worker each carrying a single unit of goods to docked ships.
It is more a matter of production versus distribution:
* if warehouses are distant to marble quarries, you lose production because cartloaders cannot get back soon enough.
* on the other hand, if warehouses are close to marble quarries, but they themselves are distant to docks, now the same occurs to exports as your dockers can ferry only so much until they get back to the docks to pick up the next cartload from warehouses.
One trick is that you can, surprisingly accurately, predict how much they can deliver between themselves. Just count the walking distance and divide by how many each cartloader can travel at a given time period.
Daearius
Pleb
posted 01-21-21 07:45 ET (US)     5 / 15       
Can't find solution better than this one:
11 x Quarries
3 x Docks
1 x Warehouse

for a total of 152 Employees.. I was not able to do better than this, without incurring in some bug or strange behaviour.

Docks position (orange is kingdom road)

In Orange Kingdom Road

Quarry positions:




In reality I think that some other goods are preferrable for selling (Furniture), So it is very possible once I start sell other staff, not all other Quarries are needed (infact I hope when other goods start to be sold I can reduce to 9/10 Quarries)

Just ignore all other buildings, this is test staff I placed quickly

I Also think this configuration is very good for starting the map easily, you basically get very decent income without having to focus too much on other things.
.

[This message has been edited by Daearius (edited 01-21-2021 @ 07:48 AM).]

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 01-21-21 09:41 ET (US)     6 / 15       
Can't find solution better than this one
Put 11 quarries around the rocks along the SE edge between the E corner and the Road to Rome. Put a single dock to the E of where you put your docks (closer to the quarries) with a warehouse right beside it. That saves 24 employees.
I think that some other goods are preferrable for selling (Furniture)
No. While each furniture sells for 150 Dn (instead of marble's 140 Dn), timber/furniture is 50% more employees than marble.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 01-21-2021 @ 10:31 AM).]

Daearius
Pleb
posted 01-21-21 12:34 ET (US)     7 / 15       
Thank you for make me noticing the other rocks group

So which goods do you suggest to sell to maximize exports?

Also will more trade routes unlock in future?

[This message has been edited by Daearius (edited 01-21-2021 @ 12:37 PM).]

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 01-21-21 15:07 ET (US)     8 / 15       
which goods do you suggest to sell to maximize exports?
I'll assume you want to maximize the value (not number) of exports.

You want the maximum number of ships, each to buy 12 of the most expensive (if possible) goods. Lutetia and Augusta Trevorum can each have 2 ships on the map at once, which means that for the maximum number of ships (around 6 per year), a ship should enter the map, sail to the dock, trade, and leave the map in less than 2 months. This means the dock(s) shouldn't be too far from the ship entry point, and that warehouses should be very close to the dock(s). Since you will want to buy olives from Lutetia, and imports are slower than exports, I recommend having 2 docks, very close together.

Lutetia ships should buy the quotas of pottery and marble and perhaps some vegetables (but not many--you don't want to reduce pottery or marble sales). This means that Augusta ships can also buy lots of pottery and marble, and therefore will probably not buy the quota of furniture, which is a bit more expensive.

You want the maximum number of caravans, each to buy 8 of the most expensive goods. Caravans should go straight through the map. (It's OK to go diagonally, N and W). Lindum and Calleva can each have 2 caravans on the map at once, so each city will purchase somewhere between 48 and 64 exports/year. Lindum should buy the quota of wine and some furniture. Calleva should buy the quotas of wine and marble and some oil. Make the wine warehouse the trade center and make it the closest to the entry point. Put the marble and furniture warehouses very close, since it is possible that a caravan will go there instead of to the wine warehouse if the wine warehouse is not as full. Put the oil warehouse somewhat farther away.

Don't connect the dock(s) to distant warehouses. You don't want dockers going a long distance.

If that's too complicated, forget about selling oil and vegetables and trying to sell the most expensive goods. Just have ships buy furniture, marble, and pottery and have caravans buy wine, furniture, and marble.

By any chance, are you trying to make the most money (instead of just the most exports)? If so, concentrate on taxes. Use the olives to make lots of palaces (and grand insulae) and tax heavily.
will more trade routes unlock in future?
No.
Daearius
Pleb
posted 01-21-21 15:25 ET (US)     9 / 15       
Ok very good thank you
mt7juans
Pleb
posted 01-22-21 01:23 ET (US)     10 / 15       
You'll have the maximum loading speed if you have warehouses in 1 square vicinity of the docks. Certainly, this can be exploited in an effective manner, if you instruct them to 'get goods' which they do from a road connected, or even a road unconnected, intraversible warehouse as the crow flies. They can store 8 units before they give up stocking any more which is enough if you have multiple of them.
Sometimes they start stealing from each other, but I have not come across such sticking in some cities such as the campaign Tarsus.
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 01-22-21 05:58 ET (US)     11 / 15       
warehouses ... 'get goods' ... Sometimes they start stealing from each other
In the unpatched original C3 (version 1.0), which very few players use, a warehouse set to get a good could send its cart pusher to another warehouse that is set to get the same good. That does not happen in the patched C3, which most players use.

I could be wrong. If you have a saved game with a warehouse set to get a good which, after the game is loaded, sends its cart pusher to another warehouse that is set to get the same good where the cart pusher takes that good, please email the saved game to the address in my profle (mentioning C3 in the email subject). Thanks.
mt7juans
Pleb
posted 01-22-21 08:59 ET (US)     12 / 15       
please email the saved game to the address in my profle (mentioning C3 in the email subject).
From off the top of my head, I recall having one Valencia do that. Is that really important? It might be the unpatched version, I never know what I've got myself into... don't take it as an affirmative.
Daearius
Pleb
posted 01-23-21 15:00 ET (US)     13 / 15       
@mt7juans

I Tried setting a warehous with "getting goods", but If I do so, cartpushers prefer putting goods in that warehouse directly instead of using the warehouse they used to fill :/

Maybe I did some mistake with roads, I clearly remember I did that before and it were working
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 01-23-21 15:42 ET (US)     14 / 15       
setting a warehous with "getting goods", but If I do so, cartpushers prefer putting goods in that warehouse directly instead of using the warehouse they used to fill
I am pretty sure that a cart pusher delivering a good doesn't care whether the warehouse is set to Accept or Get. However, the calculation of which warehouse a cart pusher will select is not simple--for details, see Cartpushers, traders, etc. - which building is nearest?.
mt7juans
Pleb
posted 02-04-21 21:39 ET (US)     15 / 15       
Maybe I did some mistake with roads, I clearly remember I did that before and it were working
Hello, again!
Just in case, you need a sure bet: disconnect the main road connection between the warehouses - the 'getting' warehouse cartloader will continue ferrying the goods without following any carved path like the way they do when ordered to do so. They are good for how many trips they can supply for at the end of the month which is easily attained by the distance divided by 53 tiles; equal to just how many squares they can cover each month.
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