20th Year (151 BC): Salary was raised to 100. 2nd (last) barber was built. Fa fell 2 for not meeting the 50% milestone. The year ended with 4090 people (300 in grand villas, 3490 in grand insulae, 300 in small insule), 14686 Dn, Cu 80, Pr 89, Pe 94, Fa 4, and good health.

21st Year (150 BC): Last plazas and 7th school were built. Vines price increased by 20 Dn. Fa fell to 0 for not sending 10 marble at all. Rome requested 10 meat in 24 months. The year ended with 4226 people (300 in grand villas, 3926 in grand insulae), 15994 Dn, Cu 82, Pr 97, Pe 99, Fa 0, and good health.

22nd Year (149 BC): Tax rate was lowered to 4%. 6 vacant lots were built. 150 Romans attacked. Fa rose 10 for defeating the Romans. The year ended with 4327 people (300 in grand villas, 4027 in grand insulae), 19579 Dn, Cu 80, Pr 99, Pe 100, Fa 3, and good health.

23rd Year (148 BC): Tax rate was raised to 10%. 11th (last) oracle was built. 150 Romans attacked. Fa fell to 0 for not sending 10 meat on time. Fa rose 10 for defeating the Romans. The year ended with 4472 people (300 in grand villas, 4172 in grand insulae), 15348 Dn, Cu 80, Pr 100, Pe 100, Fa 3, and good health.


I will stop reporting Roman attacks (150 legionaries), requests, housing (300 in grand villas, rest in grand insulae), Pr (high), Pe (100), Fa (low), and health (good). Years when nothing much happens will be skipped.

27th Year (144 BC): Tax rate was lowered to 4%. 5 vacant lots were built. The year ended with 4841 people, 11095 Dn, and Cu 73.

30th Year (141 BC): Tax rate was raised to 10%. The rescue gift was taken (with all mission requirements except Favor satisfied). The year ended with 5140 people, 323 Dn, and Cu 70.

31st Year (140 BC): Tax rate was lowered to 4%%. 4 vacant lots were built. The year ended with 5227 people, -586 Dn, and Cu 70.

32nd Year (139 BC): Tax rate was raised to 14%. Last large statue was built. The year ended with 5350 people, -4757 Dn, and Cu 70.

36th Year (135 BC): Tax rate was lowered to 6%. 3 vacant lots were built. The year ended with 5644 people, 3440 Dn, and Cu 57.

37th Year (134 BC): Tax rate was raised to 25%. Last medium statues were built. The year ended with 5715 people, 1053 Dn, and Cu 57.

41st Year (130 BC): Tax rate was lowered to 6%. Last 2 vacant lots were built. The year ended with 5903 people, 36023 Dn, and Cu 57.

48th Year (123 BC). Last small statues were built. All houses were full. The year ended with 6096 people, 14566 Dn, and Cu 56.


If Rebel Lugdunum is stable, 75 ghosts should form, the first in 41 BC and the last in 5629 AD.

53rd Year (118 BC): Tax rate was raised to 10%. 12th and 13th (last) theaters and 7th and 8th (last) libraries were built. The year ended with 6096 people, -158 Dn, and Cu 75.

116th Year (55 BC): Tax rate was raised to 11%. 8th through 21st (last) schools were built. The year ended with 6096 people, -120 Dn, and Cu 85.

129th Year (42 BC): Last gardens were built. Construction is complete! The year ended with 6096 people, 1183 Dn, and Cu 90.

130th Year (41 BC): First ghost created. The year ended with 6095 people plus 1 ghost, 1412 Dn, and Cu 90.


From now on I expect to only adjust the tax rate and/or wage rate, and no reporting Cu.

221st Year (50 AD): Wage rate was raised to 39 (Rome+9). The year ended with 6091 people plus 5 ghosts and 8374 Dn.

501st Year (330 AD): Tax rate was raised to 25%. The program was switched to Caesar III (gog.com). The year ended with 6081 people plus 15 ghosts and 336 Dn.

551st Year (380 AD): Tax rate was lowered to 0%. The year ended with 6080 people plus 16 ghosts and 425431 Dn.

601st Year (430 AD): Tax rate was raised to 12%. The year ended with 6080 people plus 16 ghosts and -3079 Dn.

651st Year (480 AD): Tax rate was lowered to 11%. The year ended with 6079 people plus 17 ghosts and 28713 Dn.

1001st Year (830 AD): The program was switched back to Julius v1.6.0. The year ended with 6074 people plus 22 ghosts and -336 Dn.

Designing Rebel Lugdunum with only 2 engineers was difficult--each passes buildings that are "unstable, and is likely to collapse soon", which I thought was good enough. However, after around 3000 years, a meat granary in the western valley collapsed. Another design error, but caused by ignorance rather than carelessness. Apparently, damage risk has a little randomness. (Fire risk in non-northern climates has much more randomness.) But I was lucky a third time, since the city continued to work even with the collapsed granary.


2971st Year (2800 AD): Tax rate was raised to 25%. The year ended with 6029 people plus 67 ghosts and 787 Dn.

3062nd Year (2891 AD): A meat granary collapsed. The year ended with 6027 people plus 69 ghosts and 775047 Dn.

3171st Year (3000 AD): Tax rate was lowered to 9%. The year ended with 6027 people plus 69 ghosts and 1703676 Dn.

Two more collapsed buildings: pig farm and wheat farm. But the city kept working! The farms now produce only about 1% extra. The engineer based in the western valley takes 4 walks in 134/16 months (slightly too long). The engineer based in the eastern valley takes 4 walks in 129/16 months.


4271st Year (4100 AD): Tax rate was raised to 11%. The year ended with 6025 people plus 71 ghosts and 72866 Dn.

4574th Year (4403 AD): A pig farm and a wheat farm collapsed. The year ended with 6024 people plus 72 ghosts and 51664 Dn.

4771st Year (4600 AD): Wage rate was raised to 40 (Rome+10). The year ended with 6023 people plus 73 ghosts and 51199 Dn.

In the 5660th year (5489 AD), 2 more pig farms and 1 more wheat farm collapsed. The city cannot work now.

Should I redo Rebel Lugdunum without my design errors?

I have a modified design without the noticed design errors. Future history was not used. For example, I now know that having 38 farms and 12 granaries is enough, but the new design still has 40 farms and 13 granaries.

The plateau market trader's walks do not have any "random" parts, and should take (including coffee break) from 22/16 months to 24/16 months. However, now there are only 3 houses on the plateau, so the farming island has another house.

The hospital was moved. None of the surgeon's walks have "random" parts.

The engineer based in the western valley will take less time to make 4 walks, since he no longer has a fairly long walk mostly following the path of wheat/meat market traders. But as a result, some markets, granaries, oracles, schools, and a library lost damage protection. There were many changes.

I expect to build Rebel Lugdunum again, but won't start for a few days.

The second try at building Rebel Lugdunum won't use anything I learned during the first try, other than the slight random component in damage risk. Development will be similar, but a few things will be done in a different order. As before, I'm starting with Julius v1.6.0.


At Very Hard difficulty, Lugdunum starts with 0 people, 3750 Db, Cu 0, Pr 0, Pe 0, and Fa 40.

1st Year (170 BC): Salary and tax rate were set to 0. 39 vacant lots, first 3 bridges, iron mine, both weapon workshops, barracks, javelin fort, first engineer post, first marble quarry, first clay pit, first pottery workshop, and first warehouse were built. The Mediolanum route was opened. Weapons were first sold. Landslide first occurred. The year ended with 195 people (in small tents), 600 Dn, Cu 0, Pr 5, Pe 2, Fa 39, and "small" health.

2nd Year (169 BC): 27 vacant lots, 4th bridge, first gardens, first clinic, first 2 granaries, and 2nd warehouse were built. All wolves were killed. The year ended with 195 people (in small tents), 304 Dn, Cu 0, Pr 5, Pe 4, Fa 38, and "small" health.

3rd Year (168 BC): 8 vacant lots, first oracle, 3rd granary, 2nd and 3rd (last) marble quarries, 2nd (last) clay pit, 2nd through 4th (last) pottery workshops, first gatehouse, and mission post were built. The year ended with 370 people (in small tents), 642 Dn, Cu 30, Pr 5, Pe 9, Fa 37, and average health.

4th Year (167 BC): 78 vacant lots, first legionary fort, and first 16 towers were built. The Massilia route became available and was opened. Marble and pottery were first sold. Rome requested 10 meat in 24 months. The year ended with 600 people (in small tents), 1014 Dn, Cu 14, Pr 5, Pe 14, Fa 36, and average health.

5th Year (166 BC): 24 vacant lots, all 8 reservoirs, all aqueducts, 2nd oracle, first 7 meat farms, and 17th through 24th (last) towers were built. The year ended with 880 people (in small tents), 2337 Dn, Cu 30, Pr 5, Pe 19, Fa 35, and average health.

6th Year (165 BC): 5th through 11th (last) bridges, first 3 fountains, first plazas, 4th granary, 2nd legionary fort, and first medium statue were built. Fa fell 3 for not sending 10 meat on time. Rome requested 10 meat in 24 months. The year ended with 1032 people (532 in large tents, 500 in small tents), 2209 Dn, Cu 22, Pr 7, Pe 24, Fa 31, and average health.

7th Year (164 BC): 4th through 9th fountains, 3rd oracle, 2nd (last) engineer post, 5th through 12th granaries, first school, first 6 markets, and 2nd and 3rd gatehouses were built. The year ended with 1200 people (1120 in large tents, 80 in small tents), 2044 Dn, Cu 31, Pr 9, Pe 29, Fa 30, and average health.

8th Year (163 BC): All 5 small temples (1 to each god), first 12 wheat farms, 4th through 7th (last) gatehouses, all walls, 3rd legionary fort, and first small statue were built. Fa fell 5 for not sending 10 meat at all. Fa fell 3 for not sending 10 meat on time. The year ended with 1528 people (1458 in small shacks, 70 in small tents), 1812 Dn, Cu 23, Pr 14, Pe 34, Fa 21, and average health.

9th Year (162 BC): Tax rate was set to 6%. 2nd clinic, 13th through 20th (last) wheat farms, wine workshop, first furniture workshop, 3rd through 6th warehouses, and Senate were built. Vines, timber, and fruit were first bought. Rome requested 10 meat in 24 months. For the first time, houses had vacancies at year-end. The year ended with 1904 people (765 in small hovels, 880 in large shacks, 189 in small shacks, 70 in small tents), 1638 Dn, Cu 30, Pr 19, Pe 39, Fa 20, and good health.

10th Year (161 BC): 4th oracle, 3rd (last) clinic, 8th and 9th meat farms, colosseum, amphitheater, gladiator school, first theater, 7th through 15th (last) markets, and first large statue were built. Fa fell 5 for not sending 10 meat at all. Fa rose 5 for meeting the 25% milestone. The year ended with 2162 people (2092 in small hovels, 70 in small tents), 2525 Dn, Cu 30, Pr 23, Pe 44, Fa 19, and good health.

11th Year (160 BC): First library, academy, and 4th legionary fort were built. Oil was first bought. Fa fell 3 for not sending 10 meat on time. Massilia increased its oil quota. The year ended with 2336 people (64 in a small casa, 1266 in large hovels, 936 in small hovels, 70 in small tents), 2243 Dn, Cu 33, Pr 25, Pe 49, Fa 15, and good health.

12th Year (159 BC): Wage rate was raised to 31 (Rome+1). Tax rate was raised to 8%. First bathhouse, first barber, 10th through 15 meat farms, and lion pit were built. Rome requested 10 marble in 24 months. The year ended with 2514 people (1173 in small casas, 634 in large hovels, 637 in small hovels, 70 in small tents), 1400 Dn, Cu 33, Pr 25, Pe 54, Fa 14, and good health.

13th Year (158 BC): Hospital, 2nd through 4th schools, and governor palace were built. Fa fell 5 for not sending 10 meat at all. Rome will invade in 1 year. The year ended with 2679 people (76 in a grand insula, 74 in a large insula, 140 in medium insulae, 752 in small insulae, 114 in large casas, 230 in small casas, 690 in large hovels, 533 in small hovels, 70 in small tents), 1150 Dn, Cu 37, Pr 32, Pe 59, Fa 8, and good health.

Another senior moment, this time during construction! I placed gardens inside eventual houses (which is OK), but walkers went over some of them (which is not, since many walkers disappear when running into houses that have expanded over gardens). Those gardens were deleted. I failed at the "Only trees can be deleted" goal (during the second build).


14th Year (157 BC): Wage rate was raised to 38 (Rome+8). Tax rate was raised to 25%. 10th and 11th (last) fountains, 5th oracle, all 3 actor colonies, and 5th (last) legionary fort were built. 38 Romans attacked. Fa rose 10 for defeating the Romans. Fa fell 3 for not sending 10 marble on time. Rome requested 10 marble in 24 months. The year ended with 2862 people (120 in grand villas, 581 in grand insulae, 100 in medium insulae, 589 in small insulae, 38 in large casas, 406 in small casas, 690 in large hovels, 338 in small hovels), 2077 Dn, Cu 37, Pr 40, Pe 64, Fa 14, and good health.

15th Year (156 BC): 6th oracle, 16th through 20th (last) meat farms, 5th through 7th schools, and 2nd through 5th (last) furniture workshops were built. The year ended with 3239 people (197 in grand villas, 1131 in grand insulae, 60 in medium insulae, 1056 in small insulae, 95 in large casas, 340 in small casas, 360 in large hovels), 1661 Dn, Cu 46, Pr 48, Pe 69, Fa 13, and good health.

16th Year (155 BC): Tax rate was lowered to 6%. 8 vacant lots, 7th oracle, 2nd through 11th theaters, and 7th and 8th (last) warehouses were built. Fa fell 5 for not sending 10 marble at all. Pottery price decreased by 20 Dn. Fa fell 3 for not sending 10 marble on time. All roads were connected. 6 gardens were deleted! The year ended with 3540 people (262 in grand villas, 2456 in grand insulae, 240 in medium insulae, 361 in small insulae, 221 in small casas), 2971 Dn, Cu 64, Pr 56, Pe 74, Fa 4, and good health.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 03-19-2021 @ 10:07 PM).]

17th Year (154 BC): Tax rate was raised to 25%. 8th and 9th oracles and 2nd through 4th libraries were built. Rome requested 10 marble in 24 months. 76 Romans attacked. Fa rose 10 for defeating the Romans. The year ended with 3772 people (300 in grand villas, 3268 in grand insulae, 204 in small casas), 4909 Dn, Cu 70, Pr 64, Pe 79, Fa 13, and good health.

18th Year (153 BC): 2nd (last) bathhouse and 5th and 6th libraries were built. Fa fell 5 for not sending 10 marble at all. The year ended with 3916 people (300 in grand villas, 3400 in grand insulae, 148 in small insulae, 68 in a small casa), 8036 Dn, Cu 86, Pr 72, Pe 84, Fa 7, and good health.

19th Year (152 BC): Last road and 13th (last) granary were built. Fa fell 3 for not sending 10 marble on time. 115 Romans attacked. Fa rose 10 for defeating the Romans. The year ended with 4052 people (300 in grand villas, 3532 in grand insulae, 220 in small insulae), 10773 Dn, Cu 82, Pr 80, Pe 89, Fa 13, and good health.

20th Year (151 BC): Salary was raised to 100. 2nd (last) barber was built. Fa fell 2 for not meeting the 50% milestone. The year ended with 4176 people (300 in grand villas, 3648 in grand insulae, 152 in medium insulae, 76 in a small insula), 12405 Dn, Cu 82, Pr 88, Pe 94, Fa 4, and good health.

21st Year (150 BC): Tax rate was lowered to 4%. 10 vacant lots were built. Vines price increased by 20 Dn. Fa fell to 0 for not sending 10 marble at all. Rome requested 10 meat in 24 months. The year ended with 4312 people (300 in grand villas, 4012 in grand insulae), 16656 Dn, Cu 82, Pr 93, Pe 99, Fa 0, and good health.

22nd Year (149 BC): Tax rate was raised to 16%. Last plazas were built. 150 Romans attacked. Fa rose 10 for defeating the Romans. The year ended with 4554 people (300 in grand villas, 4254 in grand insulae), 12113 Dn, Cu 80, Pr 94, Pe 100, Fa 3, and good health.

23rd Year (148 BC): Tax rate was lowered to 0%. 10th oracle was built. 150 Romans attacked. Fa fell to 0 for not sending 10 meat on time. Fa rose 10 for defeating the Romans. The year ended with 4705 people (300 in grand villas, 4405 in grand insulae), 12711 Dn, Cu 79, Pr 100, Pe 100, Fa 3, and good health.


I will stop reporting Roman attacks, requests, housing, Pr, Pe, Fa, and health. Years when nothing much happens will be skipped.

25th Year (146 BC): Tax rate was raised to 16%. 11th (last) oracle was built. The rescue gift was taken (with all mission requirements except Favor satisfied). The year ended with 5016 people, 1465 Dn, and Cu 73.

26th Year (145 BC): Tax rate was lowered to 0%. 6 vacant lots were built. The year ended with 5150 people, 2672 Dn, and Cu 70.

27th Year (144 BC): Tax rate was raised to 14%. Last large statue was built. The year ended with 5310 people, -4041 Dn, and Cu 70.

31st Year (140 BC): Tax rate was lowered to 0%. Last 4 vacant lots were built. The year ended with 5692 people, 5486 Dn, and Cu 57.

32nd Year (139 BC): Tax rate was raised to 15%. Last medium statue was built. The year ended with 5778 people, -897 Dn, and Cu 57.

39th Year (132 BC): Tax rate was lowered to 8%. Last small statues were built. All houses were full. The year ended with 6096 people, 20028 Dn, and Cu 57.


If Rebel Lugdunum is stable, 75 ghosts should form, the first in 61 BC and the last in 3960 AD.

57th Year (114 BC): Tax rate was raised to 11%. 12th and 13th (last) theaters and 7th and 8th (last) libraries were built. The year ended with 6096 people, -1174 Dn, and Cu 69.

109th Year (62 BC): Tax rate was lowered to 9%. 8th through 12th schools were built. The year ended with 6096 people, 32695 Dn, and Cu 76.

110th Year (61 BC): First ghost created. The year ended with 6095 people plus 1 ghost, 31487 Dn, and Cu 79.

138th Year (33 BC): Tax rate was raised to 10%. Last gardens and 13th through 21st (last) schools were built. The year ended with 6095 people plus 1 ghost, 6697 Dn, and Cu 90.

139th Year (32 BC): 2nd ghost created. The year ended with 6094 people plus 2 ghosts, 6875 Dn, and Cu 90.


From now on I expect to only adjust the tax rate and/or wage rate, and no reporting Cu.

153rd Year (18 BC): Wage rate was raised to 40 (Rome+10). Tax rate was raised to 11%. The year ended with 6093 people plus 3 ghosts and -481 Dn.

271st Year (100 AD): Wage rate was lowered to 39 (Rome+9). The year ended with 6088 people plus 8 ghosts and -51 Dn.

371st Year (200 AD): Wage rate was raised to 41 (Rome+11). The year ended with 6086 people plus 10 ghosts and 4563 Dn.

401st Year (230 AD): The program was switched to Caesar III (gog.com). The year ended with 6084 people plus 12 ghosts and -1533 Dn.

471st Year (300 AD): Wage rate was lowered to 40 (Rome+10). Tax rate was raised to 25%. The year ended with 6083 people plus 13 ghosts and -2369 Dn.

571st Year (400 AD): Tax rate was lowered to 0%. The year ended with 6082 people plus 14 ghosts and 856393 Dn.

671st Year (500 AD): Tax rate was raised to 12%. The year ended with 6081 people plus 15 ghosts and -12483 Dn.

682nd Year (511 AD): Tax rate was lowered to 11%. The year ended with 6081 people plus 15 ghosts and 791 Dn.

801st Year (630 AD): The program was switched back to Julius v1.6.0. The year ended with 6079 people plus 17 ghosts and -469 Dn.

4131st Year (3960 AD): 75th (last) ghost created. The census formed a 100-year cycle. The year ended with 6021 people plus 75 ghosts and -72 Dn.

8371st Year (8200 AD): The game was saved for the Downloads. Personal funds were 10014300 Dn.

As far as I know, Rebel Lugdunum is the first "eternal" unmodified career city. In some ways, it is my best city--my only objection is the long commute: most people live on the 3 islands and western valley, while most jobs are on the plateau and eastern valley.


Victory can be achieved in a year, by sending several gifts. This is one way: set the salary to 0, set the tax rate to 25%, make 4 lavish gifts to Rome, wait until Dec of the next year, and make 4 more lavish gifts to Rome, with these results:
Culture 90
Prosperity 100
Peace 100
Favor 57
Population 6021
Funds 12285


Let's let the debt get huge: set the wage rate to 100 (Rome+70) and the tax rate to 0%. In a little over 71 years the debt exceeds 200000000 Dn, and soon after the interest calculations mess up. It's the old "too big to fail" scenario--when a debt (owed to politically powerful people) is huge, the government bails them out. (I mistakenly thought that the balance would "wrap around", but the bail-out happened earlier.)


I submitted Rebel Lugdunum to the Downloads, along with 15 progressive saves: May of the 1st year and Dec of the first 14 years.

[Added] Rebel Lugdunum was approved.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 03-28-2021 @ 02:38 PM).]

Excellent work Brugle. I checked the end result and the early city savegames. The work put into it really shows.