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Pharaoh: Game Help
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Caesar IV Heaven » Forums » Pharaoh: Game Help » Going further in fighting skills
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Topic Subject:Going further in fighting skills
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Tryhard
Legate
posted 08-15-01 05:30 ET (US)         
Hi all,
I am throwing this around for comments.
Here is an abstract of the text fighting tables (Pharaoh Directory)
a - Type of Fighting Unit
b - Hit Points
c - Attack Value
d - Armor Value
e - Armor versus Missiles
f - Missile Attack
g - Missile Range
h - Missile Rate of Fire
i - Speed
j - Frequency
k - something
l - something
m - something
n – something

59,Arrow,,0,100,0,0,0,12,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
60,Javelin, ,0,100,0,0,0,20,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
77,Transport, ,2,75,0,0,0,0,0,0,6,0,0,0,0,0
78,Warship, ,2,300,100,0,0,15,8,30,6,0,4,800,600,400
88,Policeman, ,2,20,5,0,0,0,0,0,6,0,0,0,0,0
98,Plagued Citizen, ,1,10,0,0,0,0,0,0,6,0,0,0,0,0
77,Transport, ,2,75,0,0,0,0,0,0,6,0,0,0,0,0
78,Warship, ,2,300,100,0,0,15,8,30,6,0,4,800,600,400
11,Javelin thrower, ,2,80,4,0,1,5,10,100,6,0,0,0,0,0 ,,1 2/3,10
13,Legionary, ,2,200,15,5,3,10,8,120,11,0,0,0,0,0 ,,2,12

99,Bedouin Infantry, ,3,70,12,0,0,0,0,0,8,100,0,0,0,0
84,Hippo, ,7,6,20,16,19,0,0,0,5,0,0,0,0,0
54,Egyptian Infantry, ,3,150,12,5,6,0,0,0,5,60,0,0,0,0
55,Egyptian Archers, ,3,80,4,3,4,5,10,100,6,40,0,0,0,0
56,Egyptian Chariots, ,3,200,15,8,6,10,8,120,11,0,0,0,0,0
8,Sea People Warships,Warships, ,3,400,120,0,7,8,6,15,5,100,5,850,650,450
46,Roman Archers,Missile, ,3,90,4,3,4,6,9,110,5,50,0,0,0,0

These are comparative data between Normal, Hard, V.Hard
10,Hittite Infantry,Infantry,,3,140,10,1,1,0,0,0,7,40,0,0,0,0
10,Hittite Infantry,Infantry,,3,185,11,1,1,0,0,0,7,40,0,0,0,0
10,Hittite Infantry,Infantry,3,210,12,1,1,0,0,0,7,40,0,0,0,0

45,Roman Swordsmen,Infantry,3,150,14,7,7,0,0,0,4,60,0,0,0,0
45,Roman Swordsmen,Infantry,3,190,15,7,7,0,0,0,4,60,0,0,0,0
45,Roman Swordsmen,Infantry,3,225,17,7,7,0,0,0,4,60,0,0,0,0
46,Roman Archers,Missile,3,135,5,3,4,6,9,88,5,50,0,0,0,0,
You’ll see that the zookeeper is a ‘2’ fighting unit. I propose to send a legion of zookeepers to stop the Hittites. More seriously, having a look at the hippo helps to understand why it can be so tough to kill them using archers.
Frequency would give the ratio archers/infantry in attacking troops? Thus, the 0 for egyptian chariots would explain why you generally do not see them?
Please note how good the Romans are versus missiles, compared with the Hittites. Consequence?

My main concern was to know what would become the characteristics of an infantry company though experience gain? Say a 20HP, 1AV per level. Any idea?
I used 6 level3 or level4 infantry companies against 13 Romans (5 archers, 8 infantry). Though the archers were easily defeated, and though I had towers, it has been very difficult to defeat the Roman infantry (then I had Spirit of Seth, so could never see the end of the fight). Nonetheless, my 6 companies should not have had serious trouble comparing the figures above.
I also let one Roman company land from Sea, my 6 companies were just lurking around, ready for crushing them. Well, this is not exactly what happened, did it? There again, I should not have faced major problem, the sole survivor said.

All comments and notes would be welcome.

AuthorReplies:
Tryhard
Legate
posted 05-03-04 09:08 ET (US)     26 / 31       
I had for this Byblos some references:
- Several comments describing Byblos as not winnable at Very Hard.
Byblos is NOT very DIFFICULT at Very Hard. Once you know how to fight. I have here 50 more towers than Tryhard 2001 and am much more experienced, but already Tryhard won in 2001 without much problems with 330 military staff when I have 630. These extra towers here are much more for the design of the city than of real need.

MILITARY in BYBLOS at Very Hard
I am now missing 400 workers and will miss even more in the following years, but am not worried. I could handle the last maritime invasion without any loss, even allowing the trading ships to work properly. I stopped the game here as I know that the enemy cannot defeat me: I eradicated an earlier invasion of some 150 Hyksos without trouble, the Hittites chariots even vanished before fighting as I had killed to the last the Hittite infantry men, losing 10 chariots only and without yet the help of my towers.
To recover the missing workers at the time of a battle, I shut down the following factories: copper, wood, linen, fish and miss only 50 workers, most of them devoted to the chariot factory or the warships. My military structures are still operational and I do not even need to import the possible 4000 fish from Knossos. Incidentally, I had set for years the extra leisure places to reach a culture rating of 60. Some or all could be erased for a while to gain back 180 workers. I did not even bother to do it. Anyway, I have left enough room in the Southern block to house 1000 more people if needed. I did not gather these people just not to be required another library, senet or mortuary to reach the Culture rating of 60.

Naval warfare
The warships are scattered along the map. When the enemy invades, the warship closest to the enemy attracts the enemy warships towards the opposite of where the troop carriers are heading to. The other warships move in the way of the carriers they destroy. Hittites troop carriers are weak, and it is important to sink them and not them land as, on the contrary, Hittites have excellent ground troops (the second best after the Hyksos).
Meanwhile one warship roams along the towers until the last of the 12 attacking vessels is sunk. They are also weak vessels: even when 12, my bait vessel was still in a perfect condition after 3 months of fight.

Terrestrial warfare
The point is to charge the infantry and kill most of them before the chariots enter the map. When the chariots come in, they already have a morale dropping fast. The chariots must not be fought as they are too strong, even against your 6 companies of level 6 chariots. Losses would be enormous, making the experience level of the survivors decrease instead of increasing The Hittite chariots must be attracted along the towers, much more effective. I did not lose even one tower.
The other advantage in destroying the infantry is when a ‘Spirit of Seth’ is expected. The ‘Spirit of Seth’ at Very Hard eradicates at random one enemy company, i.e. 8 archers OR infantry OR chariots. If most infantry has already been killed, one whole company of chariots is then killed by Seth, making the retreat of the remaining enemies likely. Note that, however I had a major blessing from Seth every two years, I benefited once only from a ‘Spirit of Seth’.
Infantry and archers are useless against the Hittites. The two existing forts in Byblos must be erased, the infantry fort immediately, the archer fort later, when a sixth chariot fort is needed. The archers are used at the very beginning of the game to kill the hyenas.
The heavy Bedouin attacks are perfect to increase the level of the chariot companies.

GUdrusltd
Pleb
posted 08-01-18 11:01 ET (US)     27 / 31       
I am playing Sumur at V. Hard, and I can't beat the Hittite invasion. Their chariots rips me to shreds. I have 73 chariots (most academy trained but the first 16) and 9 infantry. Still, I am helpless against the enemy invasion, even if their numbers aren't that great.

I tried building lots of police stations, but they do little damage. Tried stationing my chariots right at the invasion entry point, so that the infantry/archers would be defeated first, still no avail. The chariots are coming too fast and they are basically immortal. There there are no walls and towers in the mission.
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 08-01-18 13:44 ET (US)     28 / 31       
I am playing Sumur at V. Hard, and I can't beat the Hittite invasion.
Hittites are extremely strong at Hard and Very Hard difficulty. Without towers, they are almost impossible to kill. I recommend that you don't try.

As I understand it (I haven't played Sumur, but have read the threads with Sumur in the title), there are 3 ways to win Sumur at Very Hard difficulty:
* Win before the invasion (which I expect to do when I play it).
* Put most of the population and much of the city south of the river; during the invasion first destroy the infantry then retreat south of the river and remove the bridge(s).
* Cause the Hittites to retreat--this is extremely difficult.

Warning: the next mission, Qadesh, is apparently the hardest mission to win at Very Hard difficulty.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 08-01-2018 @ 01:57 PM).]

evil_live_vile
Pleb
posted 08-02-18 04:19 ET (US)     29 / 31       
Hittite chariots at Hard/V.Hard are indeed extremely difficult to beat. And without luring back and forwards past a row of towers a dozen times, pretty much forget about it.

But what I wanted to add was, there is no need to sit on top of the entry point with chariots. Their best features are mobility and charging. Charge over the infantry and archers a couple times and stay out of direct conflict. You'll crush a bunch. If your unlucky, they'll only catch 1 or 2 chariots in hand-to-hand combat (the last thing you want at V.Hard). As a guide, if you try and charge and it's not available, wait a bit longer. If you can charge and your not charging (or the chariots are sitting there firing arrows), you should be charging. That applies to fighting infantry and archers. Not enemy chariots (see "luring back and forwards" above).

But if you sit on top of the entry point, your chariots are wasted. They'll engage in hand-to-hand combat. It's good but not ideal. While they may win, it wont be as convincing as it could be. Enemy morale is important to getting rid of enemy chariots, so the less losses you have, the better.

Eagles may soar, but weasels do not get sucked into jet engines
Two Eskimos sitting in a kayak were chilly, so they lit a fire in the craft. Unsurprisingly it sank, Proving once again that you can't have your kayak and heat it too
GUdrusltd
Pleb
posted 08-06-18 14:20 ET (US)     30 / 31       
So, I followed Brugle advice and beat the Sumur just before the Hittite invasion . It did require to pay the first tribute of 900 gems though. And I was sending yearly a lavish gift.

So, the next mission is Quadesh. Is it even possible on V. Hard?

[This message has been edited by GUdrusltd (edited 08-08-2018 @ 01:06 AM).]

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 08-06-18 16:33 ET (US)     31 / 31       
Quadesh. Is it even possible on V. Hard?
Yes. See Tryhard's Last citadel to fall: Qadesh at Very Hard.
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