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Topic Subject:Century of Palaces Club
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Clifford
Pleb
posted 10-16-03 17:26 ET (US)         
I thought that since the 50,000 club was popular I would also start another one about cities that have 100 or maore palaces on them. My first idea was that they be limited to Large or Luxury palaces but any others could also post here and we could have seperate lists. I only know of two so far. What I really don't want to have is contest type 100 palaces where they are all evolved the minute before the save and all devolve the minute after the save. So we are looking for 100 stable palaces. This just seems interesting to me .

If anyone is interested or has passed this level please post here.

*****************************************************


Those I know of are;

Caesar Philon - (1st April 2004) CARIA 67,748pop ; 250 luxury palaces

Caesar Philon - (16th November 2003) CP 200LxPalces; 58,000pop ; 200 luxury palaces

Goonsquad (17th november 2003) LLANDILO 50,519pop ; 137 luxury Palaces.


Theo ( November 2001? ) MEGOPOLIS 67,776pop ; 120 Large Palaces.

Caesar Clifford (1st November 2003) Cliff104P . 29,219pop ; 101 Palaces. All Luxury.

Tomek ( 1999? ) AMPHIPOLIS 54K 54,044pop ; 100 Luxury Palaces.

*******************************************************

Finally added Phil's great efforts.

[This message has been edited by Clifford (edited 07-08-2004 @ 03:29 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
goonsquad
Pleb
posted 10-30-03 07:17 ET (US)     76 / 249       
Thanks Tomek, it makes sense since it doesn't become a problem until the palaces are almost full.
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 10-30-03 11:18 ET (US)     77 / 249       
philon,
A palace does store 8 units of wine but uses 4 each month, so it can run out of wine in 2 months (just like furniture or oil). A grand villa does store 8 units of wine, but any other villa stores only 4 so it can also run out of wine in 2 months. As far as I can tell, a house tries to store between 4 and 8 units of each food for each resident. Therefore, if markets are kept supplied, a house with 3 foods should store at least 2 years worth.

Tomek,
Your consumption numbers are almost right (a full luxury palace requires 1188 total food per year, not 1200), but not the market buyer numbers. On each trip, if she can, a market buyer does collect 200 of a non-food good or 800 of wheat, but only 600 of another food. But more importantly, if she needs to, a market buyer (unlike a Pharaoh bazaar buyer) will leave to get more food/goods almost immediately after returning from her previous trip, and can therefore make several short trips per month. The 2 markets in the luxury block in my Happy Massilia easily support 8 luxury palaces and could probably support several more (with buyers going 16 tiles each way (cutting corners) to get one food, 14 tiles to get another food, and either 5 or 7 tiles to get anything else).

goonsquad,
If market buyers ever have to go a moderately long distance to get at least one of the foods or goods, then Tomek's suggestion is likely to be correct. If not, then I'd bet on philon's suggestion. For stability, you should ensure that for every house, there is at least one market, such that the longest time between visits to that house by that market's trader is less than 2 months. If that isn't the case, then it's likely that every now and then, a house will go too long between visits by a market trader and will devolve due to the lack of furniture, oil, or wine. Having lots of markets makes that less likely but still possible. I suggest that you figure out what is going on by carefully watching your city and checking a large palace just after it has devolved from a luxury palace (or better still, a luxury palace just before it devolves) to see what good it lacks, then checking the markets to see whether they have run out of that good.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 10-30-2003 @ 11:32 AM).]

EJay
Pleb
(id: EmperorJay)
posted 10-30-03 11:27 ET (US)     78 / 249       
So you are suggesting that 100 markets are needed to supply 100 palaces?

[This message has been edited by EmperorJay (edited 10-30-2003 @ 04:10 PM).]

philon
Pleb
posted 10-30-03 11:57 ET (US)     79 / 249       
Brugle ,
thanks for correcting me. Certainly you are right about wine consumption. I should sleep more and play less.

EJ,
I think Brugle means there should be at least one market seller who is passing each two months. For instance in my big blocks a market seller completes a trip in 5 months and we know that houses will lose goods in 2 months. When building more markets I reduce the possibility but its still possible as Brugle said that no market passes a house for two months. For ensuring they will do pass I would need to build smallar blocks and I dont want to this.
When building a market a wait a little before building the next one and so on but after some time some sellers start walking very close wich makes problems. I had 12 markets in earlier tries and reduced this possibility by building more. I think 16 markets for 60 palaces is still too much maybe I can find a suitable plan for markets making short trips and service buildings long. Unfortunately this increases the number of desirability structures and maybe entertainment buildings too.

[This message has been edited by philon (edited 10-30-2003 @ 11:59 AM).]

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 10-30-03 11:57 ET (US)     80 / 249       
EmperorJay,

That is not what I wrote. Please do not pretend to quote people by modifying what they write. (I suppose I should only speak for myself, but I'd imagine that most forumers would feel the same way.)

I did say something similar to what you wrote:

Quote:

For stability, you should ensure that for every house, there is at least one market, such that the longest time between visits to that house by that market's trader is less than 2 months.


Deleting over half of a sentence can radically change its meaning, as in this case. Actually, anyone familiar with the way I write would be suspicious of the extremely stilted style in your quote, and might suspect that you had modified it. (The stilted style of the correct quote is due its increased complexity and my unwillingness to spend enough time to compose the reply in a better way.)

I was obviously not suggesting that 100 markets are needed for 100 palaces, since the previous paragraph gave an example of 2 markets being plenty for 8 palaces. What I was suggesting, perhaps unclearly, is that to ensure stability, for every house, you should be able to identify a market that will keep that house supplied with goods. The maximum time between visits of that market's trader to that house should be less than 2 months. One market can perform that function for several houses. Of course, you also need to ensure that the markets do not run out of goods (which is what Tomek was discussing), so multiple markets are often needed.

EJay
Pleb
(id: EmperorJay)
posted 10-30-03 12:39 ET (US)     81 / 249       
I'm sorry Brugle that my style of posting doesn't fit yours, I never intended to make it sound you were wrong, I was asking a question. However, I have never modified, and I will never modify, anyone's texts nor did I ever "pretended" to quote people.

In my opinion, quoting someone is purely for clarification. People rarely quote, I do so because people know what I'm talking about; there are 80 posts in this thread, but now with the quote there is only one I can be replying to.

I read your post, just like all other posts, carefully. I did confuse some things in the past and I will confuse some things in the future and I will not always be correct, but I do read the posts. I have read your post and didn't understand it. Thank you for your answer.

[This message has been edited by EmperorJay (edited 10-30-2003 @ 04:09 PM).]

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 10-30-03 13:57 ET (US)     82 / 249       
EmperorJay,

I apologize for saying "pretend to quote". I should have said "misquote" or "wrongly quote" or something like that. Not that it's an excuse, but I was a little angry.

I did not add the part of my sentence that is in bold in reply #81--the complete sentence was always part of reply #77. (I did edit reply #77, but not that sentence.) The part of the sentence that is in bold in reply #81 is what you left out, in reply #78. For you to claim that you did not modify what I wrote is ludicrous--you radically changed the meaning of the sentence, by indicating that it ended when it was less than halfway done. Misquoting is not just a "style of posting".

There are ways of indicating that a sentence being quoted continued in the original. Perhaps the most common is putting in ellipsis points (...). An easier way is to simply stop. But, instead, you apparently either copied the whole sentence then deleted some of it or copied some of it then added a period.

I realize that you may not have realized that your modification would greatly change the meaning of the sentence. In my opinion, that just emphasizes the importance of quoting correctly.

By the way, I don't mind being called wrong. When I'm wrong (which happens fairly often--I could find lots of examples in these forums), I prefer to know.

EJay
Pleb
(id: EmperorJay)
posted 10-30-03 16:18 ET (US)     83 / 249       
I've edited my posts, no more misquotes. Altough I still feel modifying is diffirent from posting half a sentence. But we're straying off-topic and I do not wish to continue this discussion (here that is).

I've started on my city now, but even before I had 20 palaces I realized the map still wasn't right and had to change it again. I have 6000 people in small tents but I'm going to use large tents next time.

Clifford
Pleb
posted 10-31-03 19:50 ET (US)     84 / 249       
Well I have got to a city with 104 luxury palaces that was stable for 5 months then a few palaces ran out of pottery. But Theo said his city was about to fall apart too. All I did was go back to an earlier save and rework my other city. I am happy to have achieved the goal but I know that if I did some plannig it would be a lot better. This one just grew basically. In may 33 I had 29,219 pop with 450,000 dn in the bank. I had 4413 workers and needed 18 more. It was just Luxury palaces and large and small tents. Northern city. I had 42 of wheat and fruit farms and 33 wharfs. Pottery was 4/7, Furniture 3/6, Oil 4/7, Wine 8/13. All buildings had 11 or 12 of each as I had 11 blocks. City health was good.

I will see what your cities look like when you finish them. There is vast room for improvement but I need a new map and a decent block design. I think that if I could have got my 13 palace block idea to work that would have been easier. I would have only needed 8 blocks instead of 11 which would have saved many walkers. I did not hit the building sprite limit but may be on the walker one? I think I had 42 markets in the end, 9 granneries and 14 wharehouses. Even getting 10 blocks of 10 would be better than what I ended up with. next time.


"I'd rather die with memories than dreams"
goonsquad
Pleb
posted 11-01-03 01:45 ET (US)     85 / 249       
Excellent work Clifford. Persistence pays off.

Now that I seem to have overcome my devolve problems (Tomek was correct, it seems 8 markets were not sufficient for a 33 palace block even though granaries and warehouses were close by) I might soon join you, but a long way to go and also otherwise occupied a lot of the time.

I still have a huge problem to overcome of how to stop cart pushers from farms and especially market buyers from heading for distant granaries in other blocks once I connect my blocks, which it appears I must do eventually to get Hippodrome coverage throughout the palace blocks. I'd be interested to hear how other governors deal with this issue. The Tomek Amphipilos arrangement of several dead ending palace roads is one obvious solution but completely inappropriate for the type of block I have. Mine have more in common with the Philon style forced walker block.

My plan is not to connect them until all blocks are completed and all houses are at the highest level possible without hippodrome access (except the one containing the hippo which will be LP's all along), then connect them with Chariot Houses in each block and do a save. This isn't entirely satisfactory to me, as like most of you I'd much prefer stability. It seems certain that eventually some crossing over between blocks will occur and this may lead to shortages and devolves.

The food supply in each block will be critical. Too much and cart pushers will make the long trek to another granary miles away, and too little and market ladies will do likewise (the latter would be disastrous, the former perhaps not quite so bad). I'm thinking of overflow granaries in each block and will certainly try this. I've realised that the amount of food market buyers get from granaries each visit is pretty critical in big palace blocks and so it seems you really want your granaries fairly full most of the time, even if it costs a few walker sprites.

Of course it could also be done contest style by building hippodromes in one block after the other, deleting each when the houses have access. Not the option I prefer. I'm not even keen on using the two hippodrome cheat (any other palace builders using this?)

This Century of Palaces challenge does sharpen you up on some of the nuances of the game, no doubt about it.

philon
Pleb
posted 11-01-03 02:36 ET (US)     86 / 249       
Nice work Cliff. As you said there arent many governers who reached this level. I think any governer who can do it could be considered as a master and we certainly knew that you are a master. Since your C3 team audition contest has just started a few minutes ago I dont know how much time I can give this challange these days but I hope to complete my first plan in a few days if there wont be an unexpected problem.

goonsquad,
connecting blocks wich use forced walkers can be done in a very efficient way. In my city I have 4 huge blocks and all blocks are connected with either gardens or roads. I have one hippodrome and two charioteers. The charioteers are in sides of the first and last block and the hippodrome is in the middle. Certainly they need to have a road connection. Also I have one colloseum and 2 lion houses, 2 gladioter schools. Again the colloseum is in the middle and the entertainment schools have road access to it since without a road connection it wouldnt work. The intesting thing is that I have an amphitheater in each block and the two gladiator schools dont have a road connection to them. Also none of the markets buyers in a block has road access to other block's granaries.

EJay
Pleb
(id: EmperorJay)
posted 11-01-03 03:17 ET (US)     87 / 249       
Congratulations Cliff. My problem was that I had only room for 15 wharves, so after the audition, I'll be off to a new start.
Clifford
Pleb
posted 11-01-03 04:41 ET (US)     88 / 249       
Thank you. It's nothing compared to the real master, Phil. I will never get 200 Palaces.

I think you will have time to do other things than just the audition map as its only 4 years long but I'm sure you will set the level for everyone else. I look forward to seeing just what score you can get.


"I'd rather die with memories than dreams"
janus
Pleb
posted 11-01-03 07:06 ET (US)     89 / 249       
Congrats Clifford,

Nice job. It is available at your site? (didn't take a look yet). Why not go further and be the first governor to have 200 Lux Palaces? It is possible I think.
I am working on a plan for about 150 lux palaces, maybe more. I am able to build a stable block of 50 LP. Just have to multiply it by 3. But it takes an awfull lot of real time.

But now I first have to do an audition (hope i pass)

janus

philon
Pleb
posted 11-01-03 08:31 ET (US)     90 / 249       
Hi Janus,
nice to see you here. Though I had once 240 lx palaces for a short time I dont consider this to be worth to mention and will complete that plan soon in a stable way. I'm working on it right now.
Edit:
It isnt worth to mention since the palaces werent full though they were stable. I mixed things.
Indeed if anyone had completed soon 200 palaces somewhat stable this player would the first to achive it. I would be happy to see such players around. Btw when I complete my current city I will try 300 palaces, maybe I can do it. I feel like can get a close score since building limit will never be an issue to worry about. But I need to delay that second plan after the audition wich seems quite interesting when looking at the winning criteria.

[This message has been edited by philon (edited 11-01-2003 @ 08:49 AM).]

Clifford
Pleb
posted 11-01-03 16:29 ET (US)     91 / 249       
Long time since I did my web site so hopefully this works okay. I warn you this is a pathetic city compared to how neat everyone else's will or or already is. I just started and carried on. The only thing in its favor is that it does have 104 luxury palaces in it.
Download Cliff's 104 palace city

"I'd rather die with memories than dreams"
maximus_webb
Pleb
posted 11-01-03 22:44 ET (US)     92 / 249       
I'm giving up on the 50,000 club...I'm going to try this one now. I've got 8 luxury palaces :-) but hey that's good for me...the most I've ever had in a city is 6.
Clifford
Pleb
posted 11-02-03 04:25 ET (US)     93 / 249       
My apologies everyone. My city has 101 luxury palaces not 104. It's hard to count when you run out of fingers. Hopefully I can do beter when I get another try. Thanks ,Tomek. At least now I know the download works.
Tomek
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 11-02-03 04:31 ET (US)     94 / 249       
i think it is not only a city with 100+ palaces, but with FULL ones, what makes the project very hard

nice job, cliff!

goonsquad
Pleb
posted 11-02-03 05:32 ET (US)     95 / 249       
Maximus, if you ever decide to try for 50,000 again, bear in mind the following-

It is a simple matter to reach the mid-30,000s with only small tents, and an equally simple matter to reach the mid 40,000's with only large tents. You only need a few thousand on top of this to reach 50,000.

What makes it a little harder, is that each 68 small casa (which of course costs 68 worth of food) gains you only 40 population, since you have to delete one large tent to make way for it. You also lose a further 28 for each building you build.

All the same, if you approach it as a city of large tents, then introduce the food and services little by little, it should not be difficult to reach 50,000.

philon
Pleb
posted 11-04-03 18:17 ET (US)     96 / 249       
Well, my blocks with 60 palaces are not working. The problem is food and good distribution. Either market ladies arent walking with suitable distances between eachother or they dont have enough goods. Since each market is two tiles behing another market the time they complete a trip is different and after a few years they all start walking together. It drives me crazy when I see 20 market ladies walking on one side of the block and none on the other side. After too much work I managed having a few years suitable time when all 4 blocks had no such problem but when I fill all houses this time thier capacity wont be enough and even sellers are passing houses regularly houses dont get everthing they need.
I currently have a city with 200 fully occupied palaces in 4 blocks and stable for 2 years. Population is 58.000. I wont upload that city but if anyone wants to have a look I can send it. I'm too dissapointed to see these blocks not working for 60 palaces so I wont keep fixing that city. For small casa houses I had used 4 markets for 9180 population in my 50.000 club cities and here I rised the number of markets from 12 to 16 and than to 20 and still it doesnt work properly since the long distance. and idle roads. Even with ordinary blocks so many markets wont be needed.
Cliff, please dont include that city in the list since I dont like it. I thought it would be my best city ever and it was too beautiful to quit, but I need a fresh start.


[This message has been edited by philon (edited 11-04-2003 @ 06:26 PM).]

Clifford
Pleb
posted 11-04-03 18:43 ET (US)     97 / 249       
For the rest of us, Phil, that would be an awesome achievement but I won't put it up if you say so. 200 lux palaces and stable for 2 years. WOW!
goonsquad
Pleb
posted 11-14-03 02:24 ET (US)     98 / 249       
I've been finally working on my Century of Palaces. I've currently got 33 luxury and about 60 small palaces, all very stable, with one of four blocks left to build. Population is approx 23,000. The small palaces only need hippodrome access to upgrade, hopefully all to luxury, but I can't see a way to do this without connecting all blocks which will cause other problems I've posted about before. So I will probably just make the connections, let them upgrade, and save contest style. This is probably the only way I'll get 100 LP's with this layout. I note that that isn't the idea of it so I'll have to see how long they can stay stable once connected together.
philon
Pleb
posted 11-14-03 04:58 ET (US)     99 / 249       
Hi goonsquad,
Caesar Clifford's 101 palace city and the other two cities on the list have connected blocks and one hippodrome. Cliff's and Tomek's cities are downloadable. If you will have problems by connecting blocks you could try using multiple hippodromes. Building two hippodromes is easy, for more it depends on their placings. This trick is explained here by Caesar Alan.
CP
goonsquad
Pleb
posted 11-16-03 15:55 ET (US)     100 / 249       
I've restarted (again) and have now reached 126 Luxury Palaces. They are in 5 blocks, ranging in size between 18 and 32 palaces. I haven't yet run the city for a period of years to test stability, but I did this once it passed 100 and it was stable after 5 years. I've got a couple of ideas for getting it higher, certainly I should be able to expand the smallest block without a major cost in walker sprites. This city has been at or near the walker limit for some time.

I was able to overcome the problem of service interchange between blocks by having 2 completely separate road systems. One of them for the Hippodrome (and eventually I put the Collisseum on this road network as well), and the other for all other services, with no road connection between the blocks. It works like a charm, although there is a limit how far the chariot riders will travel, if it is too far they won't spawn at all, unlike the lion tamers and gladiators who just disappear when their maximum distance is reached. I've managed it on just one hippodrome and one colliseum, although several chariot builders and lion pits. All the housing sits between the two roads, which gives excellent scope for desirability structures.

The population is mid-30,000's but I will post again with the full details of the city when I've finished, which should be in the next day or two. Because the last of the palaces have just evolved, the population will go higher. I think I've lost a few population to vampires, the city is well over 100 years old. I used programmed distant battles to get triumphal arches and have a few left, but they weren't really necessary in the end.

Anyone who would like to see the finished product, I would be happy to send it.


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