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Topic Subject:Century of Palaces Club
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Clifford
Pleb
posted 10-16-03 17:26 ET (US)         
I thought that since the 50,000 club was popular I would also start another one about cities that have 100 or maore palaces on them. My first idea was that they be limited to Large or Luxury palaces but any others could also post here and we could have seperate lists. I only know of two so far. What I really don't want to have is contest type 100 palaces where they are all evolved the minute before the save and all devolve the minute after the save. So we are looking for 100 stable palaces. This just seems interesting to me .

If anyone is interested or has passed this level please post here.

*****************************************************


Those I know of are;

Caesar Philon - (1st April 2004) CARIA 67,748pop ; 250 luxury palaces

Caesar Philon - (16th November 2003) CP 200LxPalces; 58,000pop ; 200 luxury palaces

Goonsquad (17th november 2003) LLANDILO 50,519pop ; 137 luxury Palaces.


Theo ( November 2001? ) MEGOPOLIS 67,776pop ; 120 Large Palaces.

Caesar Clifford (1st November 2003) Cliff104P . 29,219pop ; 101 Palaces. All Luxury.

Tomek ( 1999? ) AMPHIPOLIS 54K 54,044pop ; 100 Luxury Palaces.

*******************************************************

Finally added Phil's great efforts.

[This message has been edited by Clifford (edited 07-08-2004 @ 03:29 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 07-22-11 11:26 ET (US)     226 / 249       
Oops! I did not notice a large tent devolve in the 55th year. I corrected replies 223, 224, and 225.

The small tent evolved back to a large tent in the 69th year, at the end of which Palace Peaks had 70558 people in 162 luxury palaces, 68 large palaces, 10 medium palaces, 80 small villas, and 795 2x2 large tents.
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 07-24-11 09:36 ET (US)     227 / 249       
The doubt I expressed in reply #223 was misplaced. As a not-for-real check, I temporarily evolved the 80 palaces in the 3rd "stack" to luxury palaces, and found that the palace in the same relative position as in the 1st and 2nd "stacks" devolved when the temporary desirability boosters were removed. If it happens again with the 4th "stack", I'll have to conclude that I don't understand the calculation of desirability for evolution/devolution, at least for that arrangement of buildings!

If city health becomes excellent, it shouldn't happen until the city is almost complete, so I gave the 4th "stack" clinic coverage. At the end of the 70th year, PalacePeaks had 71756 people in 177 luxury palaces, 63 large palaces, 17 grand villas, 3 large villas, 1 medium villa, 59 small villas, and 795 2x2 large tents.
Trium
Pleb
posted 07-28-11 18:04 ET (US)     228 / 249       
Brugle,

I'm curious about the desirability thing. I'd like to see a save at some point (in due course - I don't mean right now) from just before the 'trial' evolution. The save will have recorded the desirability of every tile on the map, which can be checked against expectations.
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 07-29-11 13:30 ET (US)     229 / 249       
Since non-food goods are supplied only every 1.5 months in PalacePeaks, houses must remain grand villas until they are resupplied with increased stocks of wine before being evolved to palaces. I didn't mind evolving all 80 grand villas in each of the first two "stacks" nearly simultaneously, but I didn't want that many immigrant families on the map for the last two "stacks".

In the 3rd stack, grand villas got the required 50 entertainment points (but not the 55 points that would allow evolution) from a colosseum with no shows and a hippodrome including city-wide coverage. It wasn't hard to find a place for a temporary theater (and a temporary engineer post) to give half of those houses theater coverage, allowing them to evolve to medium palaces while keeping the other half grand villas.

Grand villas in the 4th stack already had coverage from a colosseum with 2 shows which could not be eliminated, so they got the required 50 entertainment points from that and a theater and an amphitheater with no shows and city-wide hippodrome coverage. Giving them all hippodrome coverage (without other changes) would have evolved most of them to palaces, since palaces are more desirable neighbors and (more importantly) have a much longer desirability range than grand villas. It would have been possible to precisely adjust desirability boosters as the chariot passed houses (requiring lots of saved games and tests and reloads) to make about half of the grand villas evolve, and in retrospect that might have been easier, but I chose a different method.

The 74th year was tricky. Very early, all houses were grand villas. Fairly early, for just a few ticks, I disrupted the road-and-garden paths used by some market traders to give 43 of the grand villas (those closest to the entry point) hippodrome coverage, 42 of which evolved to medium palaces. The second and third times I wanted to do that, a market trader whose path was disrupted would have spawned at the same time as the chariot, so I further disrupted the road-and-garden paths used by the second "stack"'s surgeon and bath girl so that the chariot went through the third "stack" when it would have gone through the second "stack" and vice versa. (Fortunately, an affected market trader, surgeon, or bath girl did not spawn at those times.) The fourth time, the configuration was normal so all houses become medium or better palaces. (A few houses in the fourth "stack" evolved to luxury palaces for a short time, but then lost theater coverage and devolved back to large palaces. That theater (and the last 3 temples) had been deleted earlier.)

Since not all of the 42 medium palaces had filled when the remainder of the grand villas evolved, before that happened I deleted all of the schools in the city. I began a slightly tedious program of building 2 schools, deleting them when their children had finished their first walks, and repeating with the next 2 schools. I estimate this frees up about 22 walker sprites. It also frees up 14 building sprites (16 for short times), which I needed for more farms. (I had been bumping against the building sprite limit for over a year.)

PalacePeak's 74th year ended with 78802 people in 240 luxury palaces, 32 large palaces, 48 medium palaces, and 795 2x2 large tents.


Trium,

I investigated a little, have a theory about the evolution/devolution confusion, and will report it if the fourth "stack" shows the same behavior as the other three.

It shouldn't be long before PalacePeaks is done. The planned arrangement in any "stack" could be duplicated by deleting an oracle and building 2 gardens in its place, so if you don't mind I'll let you wait until then.
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 07-30-11 20:00 ET (US)     230 / 249       
[Added later: City health became excellent in the 77th year.]

At the end of its 77th year, PalacePeaks had 84357 people in 242 luxury palaces, 78 large palaces, and 795 2x2 large tents.

Once again, in a not-for-real check, I evolved the large palaces and found the same desirability problem as in the first 3 "stacks". My explanation is described in Most desirable house tile determines evolution/devolution? Maybe not!. (The 4 extra desirability boosters could be avoided by replacing a garden with a plaza in 4 places, but that would allow 8 more palaces to generate patrician walkers, so I rejected the idea.)

Previously, I took my time evolving large palaces, since other parts of the city were being developed at the same time. Now there's nothing else to do, so I may try evolving the large palaces in 2 or 3 years and see if their food supplies can take the strain.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 07-31-2011 @ 06:41 PM).]

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 08-01-11 12:12 ET (US)     231 / 249       
The last immigrant moved in near the end of the 79th year, making 86260 people in 320 luxury palaces and 795 2x2 large tents.

I ran it for over 20 years, changing nothing except labor priorities, until devolution caused by worker shortages began. I then went back to the just-completed city, changed labor priorities, raised Favor to 100, and submitted PalacePeaks to the Downloads.

I think that more palaces are possible, but don't expect more from me.

Once the city is available, the evolution/devolution problem mentioned earlier can be seen by finding a row of 3 oracles and a school (with the school at the NE end) just E of the middle of any of the 80-palace "stacks". Delete the SW oracle and immediately put gardens where its N and W tiles were. (If the city will be run for long afterward, build a replacement oracle somewhere else to keep the gods from becoming Irritated.) The luxury palaces should have enough desirability (at least 76 on elevated ground) in their most desirable tiles to prevent devolution, but one (the one to the SW of the deleted oracle) devolves. (Note that the configuration in the area is now a mirror image of the area to the SW.) Furthermore, building small statues (deleting something else first) where the S and E tiles of the deleted oracle were should produce enough desirability (80 on elevated ground) in the large palace's most desirable tile (its ENE edge tile) to evolve, but it doesn't evolve.

All building sprites are used. Buildings are:
320 luxury palaces
795 2x2 large tents
24 wells
20 reservoirs
93 fountains
12 engineer posts
40 wharves
136 wheat farms
136 vegetable farms
24 granaries
8 clay pits
16 pottery workshops
8 timber yards
16 furniture workshops
8 olive farms
16 oil workshops
16 vine farms
32 wine workshops
4 warehouses
36 markets
14 gatehouses
16 schools
4 libraries
4 academies
4 baths
4 clinics
4 barbers
4 hospitals
4 theaters
4 amphitheaters
2 colosseums (unstaffed)
2 gladiator schools
2 lion pits
1 hippodrome
1 chariot maker
4 forums
118 oracles
13 triumphal arches

The following two paragraphs are from the text accompanying the submitted file:

Non-food goods use just-in-time inventory. In the save, the 4 warehouses contain a total of 4 pottery, 6 furniture, 6 oil, 6 wine, and 16 marble.

In each 1/16 month, 2 raw material cart pushers, 2 workshop cart pushers, either 12 or 16 school children, at most 2 market traders, and at most 1 lion or gladiator appear. The raw material and workshop cart pushers which appear at the same time are in the same non-food goods supply area. (The appearance of other walkers, especially food cart pushers, varies considerably.)

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 08-01-2011 @ 12:28 PM).]

Darkgreen
Pleb
posted 08-05-11 12:26 ET (US)     232 / 249       
Congratulations Brugle. I had a gander at it last night. Truly impressive. It makes my head hurt just trying to think of all of the logistics.
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 11-20-11 18:23 ET (US)     233 / 249       
Trium,
Would you check the count of walkers (just once would be enough) in PalacePeaks? I'm curious and would appreciate it.
Trium
Pleb
posted 11-21-11 02:49 ET (US)     234 / 249       
Surprisingly low. As the save loads:-

All Destination
Cartpusher 168 151
Citizen 62 48
Tax Collector 4 4
Engineer 12 7
Actor 7 7
Lion Tamer 19 19
Charioteer 4 4
Fishing boat 40 6
Market trader 34 34
Schoolchild 30 21
Teacher 4 4
Librarian 4 4
Barber 4 4
Bath girl 2 2
Doctor 4 4
Surgeon 4 4
Market buyer 13 13
Patrician 6 6
Seabirds 8 0
Basket boy 28 0
---------------
457 342

[This message has been edited by Trium (edited 11-21-2011 @ 03:17 AM).]

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 11-21-11 17:23 ET (US)     235 / 249       
Thanks, Trium. That is fewer walkers than I expected. Perhaps 360 or 400 full luxury palaces is possible.
philon
Pleb
posted 06-15-12 12:34 ET (US)     236 / 249       
Congrats Brugle. Not having visited the forum for years, I wasn't aware of your great achievements until recently. When I downloaded and saw your 320 palace city I was amazed how professionally it was build. All those palaces popping out in the middle of nothingness, being surrounded with almost nothing, is like poetry. Even when I saw the palaces in front of me I thought, "This shouldn't be possible. How does this work?" I felt mesmerized, looking around the palaces, trying to understand how it all worked with so few supporting buildings. The city is a real beauty and a masterpiece.

I compared Palace Peaks to your 256 Palace city and was surprised by mind blowing improvements you made. This is like the best improvement ever on anything. There is not a single area where you didn't improve. Coverage per oracle went from 692 people to 731 people; per school from 16 palaces to 20 palaces; per market from 4.0 to 8.9 palaces. Number of engineers dropped from 20 to 10 engineers, making Palace Peaks probably the best city ever in terms of engineer efficiency.

There is also a huge drop in walker sprites. All in all, I think Palace Peaks is one of the best Caesar3 cities ever. There is nothing left that is not crucial.

It is amazing that some of the best cities were build after interest in Caesar3 almost completely died out.

The desirability effect of elevated land is new to me. I never knew about that for all those years. If I did, I would have certainly used it. It is a great feature. It is the same with the absence of temples for medium palace and higher. I didn't know that was possible which is surprising really because you would think that I should know about those things. Maybe both details were mentioned by some of the old timers here but were forgotten in time.

The trick you did with the hippodrome is cool. It is sending out a chariot to different directions in turns. I could have never done that. I don't know even how to make that work for one block let alone for four blocks at the same time.
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 06-15-12 20:17 ET (US)     237 / 249       
Hi Philon,

I've been hoping that you'd eventually see Palace Peaks. Thanks for the compliments. I am proud of it, but I don't think it deserves all of your superlatives.
I compared Palace Peaks to your 256 Palace city ... There is not a single area where you didn't improve.
Not quite. Palace Peaks has lower unemployment--I wanted high unemployment so the city would run longer. Palace Peaks has lower tax coverage (although it would still be enough if 3 out of 4 forums were deleted). Some players would consider the unstaffed colosseums in Palace Peaks to be a flaw.
Coverage per oracle went from 692 people to 731 people
By simply replacing 6 of the oracles which touch a governor's palace with gardens, LuxPal256 could cover 734 people per oracle. (The oracles were needed for the palaces to evolve but are not needed to prevent them from devolving.) I didn't do that because LuxPal256 had building sprites to spare. In Palace Peaks, I wanted the maximum number of tents to maximize unemployment.
Number of engineers dropped from 20 to 10 engineers
Palace Peaks has 12 engineer posts, which I still think is pretty good.
The desirability effect of elevated land is new to me.
The basics were discussed way back in 2001 in the Waterfront desirability thread. I was annoyed with myself for forgetting it while designing LuxPal256.
the same with the absence of temples for medium palace and higher
That was discussed in 2005 (after you built Caria) in the Brugle luxury palace block - how many temples needed? thread.
The trick you did with the hippodrome is cool.
I discovered that by watching the hippodrome-generated chariots in LuxPal256. It only helped Palace Peaks a little, but I agree that it is cool.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 06-16-2012 @ 04:40 PM).]

Trium
Pleb
posted 06-23-12 22:54 ET (US)     238 / 249       
I don't think it deserves all of your superlatives.
I disagree. It is an incredible achievement, and as with most of your cities it is all the more remarkable for being almost completely pre-conceived.

Having said that, there are many worthy efforts by others in this thread and in comparing them to your masterpiece one has to be mindfull of the level of C3 knowledge that existed at the time they were built.
philon
Pleb
posted 06-24-12 19:39 ET (US)     239 / 249       
I read the walker numbers for Caria from the walker tables.

257 cart pusher
100 basket boy
70 labour seeker
53 market trader
50 fishing boat
48 engineer
47 schoolchild
35 market buyer
33 lion tamer
18 priest
14 charioteer
12 actor
11 gladiator
10 tax collector
7 librarian
7 patrician
6 teacher
6 barber
6 bath girl
6 surgeon
6 seabirds
5 doctor
2 hippodrome racers
total 809

It is a little more than what I had calculated. With 1932 buildings and 809 walkers I was not too far from both limits.Caria and the 256 palace city had similar block designs and industry placements which was the natural way to solve goods distribution problems. With the ideas applied on both maps, the scores were similar.

But in Palace Peaks Brugle made a huge leap forward by coming up with two new ideas:

1. Highland desirability gain. This was known but was long forgotten and would have never been used in this challenge if Brugle didn't remember and use it.
2. Forced market gatehouses. I think this might be unique discovery by Brugle. It was known that forced markets would make random walks every now and then. We talked about this during the one fountain challenge. This was known to all of us but I never though of cancelling the random walk with a gatehouse.

Long time age I prepared a demo sav file for forced walkers and in that demo one of the examples showed how a forced building doesn't need nearby labour access because it would get it from anywhere on his route. But I never connected that idea with using a gatehouse to cancel random walk.

In Palace Peaks there are some large tents who would get access to food from those random walks by forced markets and maybe the inspiration to use the gatehouse came from here, to prevent tents getting food. However the market gatehouse actually solves a much bigger problem which is unmaintained distances between market sellers.

Normally you can't have long loops because palaces will run out of goods in two months and walker speed is 640 tiler per year which equals to 106 tiles in two months. But the loops in palace peaks are over 225 tiles. You would need 3 market sellers that maintain the distances between each other at all time. This means no random walk.

Therefore the market gatehouse for goods markets is critical to enabling longer loops. If you delete goods market gatehouses in palace peaks the blocks collapse. For food markets the gatehouse is not needed if it weren't for large tents.Also there is some high level creativity regarding Brugle's desirability calculations.

These things are not easy. Very well done if it was done on paper. I'm using an excel macro for this and I can't come up with anything better. 76 points are needed and the best way possible to make use of oracles is Brugle's design.


[This message has been edited by Philon (edited 06-24-2012 @ 07:44 PM).]

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 06-29-12 15:43 ET (US)     240 / 249       
Sorry about the delays responding here. I had a brain stroke, and seemed to get most of my speech back by the end of the first day. Now (4 days later) I can respond well enough, but there are bound to be some differences.
With 1932 buildings and 809 walkers I was not too far from both limits.
There are 3 limits: 1999 buildings, 999 walkers, and 599 walker routes. The first limit is decided by buildings, but the second and third are decided by walkers. I decided that my Palace Peaks would be closest to the walker route limit, so I concentrated on keeping it smallest.
two new ideas
Whether it counts as a new idea, the idea of having just enough warehouses to cover everyone is a major advance, which helped here. Not only did it save buildings (108) but also saved walkers--every raw material and finished non-food good walker went from his building to his delivery point and back again. (This is not true for food walkers, unfortunately.) Note: Trium came up with this idea at around the same time that I did.
In Palace Peaks there are some large tents who would get access to food from those random walks by forced markets and maybe the inspiration to use the gatehouse came from here
No, the idea of giving everyone water was a late edition.
For food markets the gatehouse is not needed if it weren't for large tents.
Perhaps the food markets wouldn't be needed if not for the large tents, but more markets would be needed. Having gatehouses reduces the number of walkers while (at the worst) keeping the number of buildings the same. This keeps the maximum walkers down.
Very well done if it was done on paper.
Yes, it was done on paper. Not everything is the same--in a few places markets affects things. It is possible that a few things might be better, but with 4 extra oracles to make 1 building fewer it doesn't matter too much.

[Edit: replaced "aneurysm" with "stroke". I'll blame the stroke for the mistake!]

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 01-30-2013 @ 09:27 AM).]

Yahya
Pleb
posted 06-30-12 08:46 ET (US)     241 / 249       
Sorry about the delays responding here. I had a brain aneurysm, and seemed to get most of my speech back by the end of the first day. Now (4 days later) I can respond well enough, but there are bound to be some differences.
Wow, Brugle. Glad to see you are okay, or at least relatively so.
Arclite
Pleb
posted 07-20-18 08:36 ET (US)     242 / 249       
Hi, Brugle hope you're still here.

I was impressed with your Palace Peaks even though I'm not a fan of non-realistic cities. But tecnicaly your masterpiece build so accurate and presice, it's like a mechanical watch! May I ask some questions about your city?

The first one which I'm the most curious is about "palaces staffing". Suddenly (atleast for me) it turned out that palaces consume workforce. For example, if I load your save I'll see around 7.4K workers (~5.8K employed and ~1.5 unemployed people). But if I delete all palaces, there will be around 9K workers (ofcourse same amount of eployees but more uneployed people).
I found Work force calculation thread but formula that's in it gives me quite absurd numbers or I'm doing something wrong. Can you explain how to calculate total amount of WF (after placing palaces)?

Second one's about immigrants. Are they considered as destination walkers (thus affect the 599 walker routes)?

Also, is there a way to have reservoir full of water on elevated land? And is there a way to have more than 8 fishing points? In philon's reply #29 from Fishing production quantified the maximum number of cartloads per year for a wharf is 38.4 but in his samples it is 37. Which one has the right number?

If you had made a third attempt in this challenge how many triumphal arches would you use if any? Because oracles seem overpowered. And is there any new knowledge that you would use?

In reply #195 you mentioned that 500 LxPs are most likely possible if enough goods (non-food goods if I get you right) are stocked.
Suppose you want 320 LxPs that way. For 20 years of stability (like in Palace Peaks) you would need:

(quantity of good one house consume per year)*(each good + addition wine)*(number of LxPs)*(number of years)
or
0,24*(4+1)*320*20=7680 cartloads


Which means you would need 7680/32=240 warehouses and each one counts as 9 buildings so 2160 buildings.
So how is it possible to make 500 LxPs?

And last small question - how many ticks in a duoday?

Thanks in advance!

[This message has been edited by Arclite (edited 07-20-2018 @ 08:45 AM).]

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 07-20-18 12:31 ET (US)     243 / 249       
I'm not a fan of non-realistic cities
I don't consider any C3 cities to be realistic.
Suddenly (atleast for me) it turned out that palaces consume workforce.
The game does not keep track of the ages of people in each house, only in the city as a whole.
For example, if I load your save I'll see around 7.4K workers (~5.8K employed and ~1.5 unemployed people). But if I delete all palaces, there will be around 9K workers (ofcourse same amount of eployees but more uneployed people).
The game does not handle elimination of large numbers of people at the same time very well. It chooses an age (I don't know how) and eliminates that many people from that age, choosing another age if there are people left over.

I took Palace Peaks, waited until after the age/death/birth point early the next year, deleted all of the palaces, and had about 7.7K workers. (I expect that if I did that again, it would have a different number of workers.) Looking at the Population - Census screen under the Population Advisor, about half of the ages had no people. Apparently, when you eliminated the palaces, the game eliminated more people in non-working ages (0-19 and 50 up) for you than it did for me.
Can you explain how to calculate total amount of WF (after placing palaces)?
Palace Peaks has roughly 50K people ages 20 through 49 and 22260/86260 = 25.8% plebians, so its work force would be roughly 0.6 * 50000 * 25 * .01 = 7500.
immigrants. Are they considered as destination walkers
Yes.
is there a way to have reservoir full of water on elevated land?
No.
is there a way to have more than 8 fishing points?
No.
In philon's reply #29 from Fishing production quantified the maximum number of cartloads per year for a wharf is 38.4 but in his samples it is 37. Which one has the right number?
The maximum number of cartloads per year for a wharf is 38.4. See reply #20 in that thread.
If you had made a third attempt in this challenge how many triumphal arches would you use if any?
I haven't made a third attempt and don't plan to. What I did in Palace Peaks was use just enough oracles to keep the gods Displeased, with triumphal arches used for the remaining desirability. (1 triumphal arch could replace 4 oracles.)
is there any new knowledge that you would use?
I can think of one thing that might be useful, storing a lot of raw materials in a workshop then eliminating the raw material producers, but that seemed too "tricky" for me.
In reply #195 you mentioned that 500 LxPs are most likely possible if enough goods (non-food goods if I get you right) are stocked.
Actually, I said "if enough non-food goods are made, imported, or stockpiled", and I think I would make them rather than import or stockpile.
So how is it possible to make 500 LxPs?
The idea for that is to have the palaces nearly empty, so they consume little or no food. I eventually decided that I was only interested in full luxury palaces.
how many ticks in a duoday?
50.
Arclite
Pleb
posted 01-07-19 15:11 ET (US)     244 / 249       
Hi Brugle
As always I have some questions for you.

Where can I find info about "coffee breaks" for all (or some atleast) walkers?

UPDATE[1]: Found it here.

What's the time of devolving houses in ticks? I've tried to measure it, but every time I got different results. Maybe it starts (or ends) at some of the duodays, I dunno.

Why do you use chariot maker? Just to remove citizen from hippo? Your city runs well either way.

Is it possible to use only one gladiator school? I guess it needs to be located somewhere near NW lion pit (suppose we have enough space there and good labor access).

I'm really curious why you use 3 food markets (in each 40LxP block) instead of just 2? I've deleted 8 of them (1 in each block) and yet your city lasted longer (devolve at Jan 103). Though I didn't even add aditional tents.

Does gatehouses orientation affects anything? Besides graphical exterior and location of free roads. I'm so meticulous because I know that e.g. for arch it matters.

It appeares to me that market buyers cant get goods from cuted-off warehouses (which consist of less than 9 tiles). Is there a way to force them to?

Now that you know that you were hundreds sprites away from both walker limits could you tell is it better to build city like PalacePeaks ASAP if you want max free run time or not? After I found info about max immigrants per month (192 people or 50 sprites) I realised that fast build might be an option.


Can you wrap 6 forced markets around 1 gatehouse and cause shorting due blockage? I can make only 5 markets (pictures below). There're two possible option if I'm not missing something - plazas are market's starting points, roads near markets are they finishing points (the latter may have slightly different locations).



Legend


Also could you explain a little bit how does this walker's behavior works? Ambulomancy says that shorting due to blockage only switches destination walk to the random not to go-home mode. Does it works how it is because of only one tile between gate and market? So if I have more tiles that formation would be completely useless to syncronize market traders?

And at last could you please upload Truim's program that counts walker's spites?

[This message has been edited by Arclite (edited 01-08-2019 @ 03:58 AM).]

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 01-07-19 16:38 ET (US)     245 / 249       
Where can I find info about "coffee breaks"
As far as I know, it hasn't been collected in one place. It's easy to measure.
What's the time of devolving houses in ticks? I've tried to measure it, but every time I got different results.
I thought it was a constant, but I haven't investigated.
Why do you use chariot maker?
I could see that the hippodrome with shows would generate chariots in the four directions, and didn't know how it would work without shows. Besides, it's just one building with no destination walkers.
Is it possible to use only one gladiator school?
Perhaps. Building 2 gladiator schools meant fewer walkers, which seemed to be more important.
I'm really curious why you use 3 food markets (in each 40LxP block) instead of just 2?
I didn't know if 2 would be enough.
Does gatehouses orientation affects anything? Besides graphical exterior and location of free roads.
No.
It appeares to me that market buyers cant get goods from cuted-off warehouses (which consist of less than 9 tiles). Is there a way to force them to?
Don't know.
Now that you know that you were hundreds sprites away from both walker limits could you tell is it better to build city like PalacePeaks ASAP if you want max free run time or not?
Palace Peaks was well below sprite limits when they were measured. However, it is possible that now and then a lot more were used. Reaching a walker sprite limit just once could cause the city to fail.

I suppose it could be built faster and might run a little longer, but why bother?
Can you wrap 6 forced markets around 1 gatehouse and cause shorting due blockage?
I don't know if you could put 6 forced markets around 1 gatehouse.

If I remember Ambulomancy correctly, all StephAmon meant by shorting due to blockage was that the initial walk to the walk target was interrupted by a roadblock or gatehouse, so you would still have shorting due to blockage even if there was more than 1 road tile to walk on.
could you explain a little bit how does this walker's behavior works?
Since there is only 1 road tile to walk on, the "random" part of the walk cannot occur (or lasts for only a tick or two).
So if I have more tiles that formation would be completely useless to syncronize market traders?
You might be able to synchronize market traders, but they would waste time before starting to return back to the market.
could you please upload Truim's program that counts walker's spites?
It would be better for Trium to make it available, although I don't think he'd mind. (I haven't heard from him for quite a while.) I'll try to contact him.

Assuming I don't hear from Trium, I suppose I could figure out how to do that, but I don't have much free time. Maybe I could find time this month.
Arclite
Pleb
posted 01-07-19 17:46 ET (US)     246 / 249       
PalacePeaks works well with 2 granaries in each block too (you need to allow mixing food). But falls apart with both 2 markets and 2 granaries, tho I didn't syncronize traders anew so there's a hope.

By the way I see how you syncronize goods traders (I guess by just deleting and replaycing starting point road tile). But how do you spaced markets exactly 1.5 months apart?
Building 2 gladiator schools meant fewer walkers, which seemed to be more important.
Maybe. But that's discreteness against continuity. It doesn't matter how many sprites left to the limit - one or hundrend - if have some you good. And one or two or more addition houses can give you more free run time - maybe just few months but still.

Concerning the build time I think that after your city's health became better than average it's a race. Perhaps I'm wrong and need to study health topics.

Thanks Brugle, hope I didn't bother you and Trium much.
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 01-08-19 10:24 ET (US)     247 / 249       
I see how you syncronize goods traders (I guess by just deleting and replaycing starting point road tile)
I don't remember, but I assume I synchronized both goods traders and food traders by building those markets with that time between them.
how do you spaced markets exactly 1.5 months apart?
Make the time for the market trader's walk plus the "coffee break" (between 2 and 3 duodays, if I remember correctly) is exactly 4.5 months. Then build the 3 markets at 1.5 month intervals.
It doesn't matter how many sprites left to the limit - one or hundrend - if have some you good
True, but how do you know you will have some? It is possible (though probably unlikely) for the number of desired walkers or destination walkers) to exceed the limit and (depending on the walker that isn't formed) the city may fall apart. I prefer to make a city that has a low chance of falling apart to one that has a higher chance of falling apart but just happens to avoid it this time.
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 01-20-19 17:23 ET (US)     248 / 249       
Arclite,
I heard from Trium today, and he doesn't mind if I distribute his system. I'll figure out how to distribute it--I need to move it to another computer of mine anyway. It may be ready in a week.
Arclite
Pleb
posted 01-21-19 15:10 ET (US)     249 / 249       
Thanks Brugle, I'll be waiting.
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