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Caesar IV Heaven » Forums » Caesar III: Game Help » Century of Palaces Club
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Topic Subject:Century of Palaces Club
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Clifford
Pleb
posted 10-16-03 17:26 ET (US)         
I thought that since the 50,000 club was popular I would also start another one about cities that have 100 or maore palaces on them. My first idea was that they be limited to Large or Luxury palaces but any others could also post here and we could have seperate lists. I only know of two so far. What I really don't want to have is contest type 100 palaces where they are all evolved the minute before the save and all devolve the minute after the save. So we are looking for 100 stable palaces. This just seems interesting to me .

If anyone is interested or has passed this level please post here.

*****************************************************


Those I know of are;

Caesar Philon - (1st April 2004) CARIA 67,748pop ; 250 luxury palaces

Caesar Philon - (16th November 2003) CP 200LxPalces; 58,000pop ; 200 luxury palaces

Goonsquad (17th november 2003) LLANDILO 50,519pop ; 137 luxury Palaces.


Theo ( November 2001? ) MEGOPOLIS 67,776pop ; 120 Large Palaces.

Caesar Clifford (1st November 2003) Cliff104P . 29,219pop ; 101 Palaces. All Luxury.

Tomek ( 1999? ) AMPHIPOLIS 54K 54,044pop ; 100 Luxury Palaces.

*******************************************************

Finally added Phil's great efforts.

[This message has been edited by Clifford (edited 07-08-2004 @ 03:29 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
philon
Pleb
posted 10-20-03 12:54 ET (US)     26 / 249       
The Dreamwalker,
In The Appian Way you can find a chart for housing needs including desirability. A lx palace needs 90 points but after it evolves it wont devolve back with 86 points.
For each structure's desirability affect (including houses) here in reply 15 there is a list. I think the houses give the same points to themselves as well as around their first tile.
And yes a house will evolve if the needed points are in any tile so there is no need making all its environment desirable.

[This message has been edited by philon (edited 10-20-2003 @ 12:57 PM).]

maximus_webb
Pleb
posted 10-21-03 15:15 ET (US)     27 / 249       
I'm curious, are all these blocks just super-efficient or are you using a chariot maker for each one (as you only get 1 hippodrome)?
EJay
Pleb
(id: EmperorJay)
posted 10-21-03 15:18 ET (US)     28 / 249       
In theory, 1 Chariot Maker can be sufficient and that is what I'm currently trying to do.
goonsquad
Pleb
posted 10-21-03 19:10 ET (US)     29 / 249       
Philon what I had in mind was to program lots of distant battles in early years to get 20 triumphal arches (this seems to be the maximum you can get). The trick is to design the palace blocks in such a way that they all get desirability from them.
maximus_webb
Pleb
posted 10-21-03 21:31 ET (US)     30 / 249       
EJ, I'm not trying to be arrogant or anything, but I'm wondering how on earth you can use just one chariot maker and one hippodrome to service 10 palace blocks of 6 or 8 palaces?
goonsquad
Pleb
posted 10-21-03 21:58 ET (US)     31 / 249       
If the blocks are designed in such a way that the charioteers have to pass every palace in every block to reach the hippodrome, this would work. I'm not sure that it's the most economical solution in terms of walker sprites since the chariot maker produces 4 chariots a month and these are all sprites until they reach the hippodrome. If it takes a year to get to the hippodrome, that's 48 sprites and you only get 1000. At least they move quickly. If the concern is number of buildings and workers and walker sprites are not an issue this is the way to go.
philon
Pleb
posted 10-22-03 01:34 ET (US)     32 / 249       
Building multiple hippodromes is possible but it wouldnt be a good idea since they count as 3 buildings. By first getting 1998 structures building only 1/3 of a hippodrome could be a solution and this 5x5 building would work without a problem if you dont mind its bad look.
Using 1 charioteer for all the blocks could work depending on the number and lenght (and design) of the blocks since there is a max. distance limit. I once tested it but dont remember now. If the distance is too much the charioteer wont send anyone to the hippodrome.

A few days ago I builded connected large insulae blocks and used one colosseum for all the blocks. One of the biggest problem you will have with this idea is food and good distribution problems as you might guess. Assuming a market buyer walks to a far granary or warehouse, or a farm tries to deliver to a distant granary, this would mean only problem. Certainly overcoming this problem is possible by not connecting markets and farms to the block with roads(or garanries) even if there is a road connection for chariteers.

BTW I guess you all know that a warehouse is count as 9 buildings when considering building limit wich is another problem to take care.

goonsquad,
I currently have a good design for solving desirability problems. I decided to use large statues and maybe oracles too. This allows having less complicated and thinner loops. I am working on food and good production now. I wish the map size would be a little bigger. When I have solved these few things too you will see the city soon since there wont be bigger problems.

[This message has been edited by philon (edited 10-22-2003 @ 01:42 AM).]

EJay
Pleb
(id: EmperorJay)
posted 10-22-03 02:04 ET (US)     33 / 249       
maximums_webb, I understand your question. There for I marked the word "can". I don't know it if it works for 100 palaces, but having only 1 charioter does work with smaller number of palaces, say 25.

Philon, my plebian block currently covers the lenght of the map and is 5 tiles wide (7 if roads are counted). I had indeed some problems with the market ladies, but the actors did walk the whole block to the theater, which was 5 tiles north of the colony.

Clifford
Pleb
posted 10-22-03 02:14 ET (US)     34 / 249       
I had two hippodromes in "day at the races" contst but maybe not neccessary here. In my 8 so far, blocks of lux palaces I only have 2 theatres and 2 ampitheatres,with one colossoum and one hippodrome. I am still developingnew ideads as I build so can always delete my early blocks and replace them with better layouts as time goes by.
philon
Pleb
posted 10-22-03 03:17 ET (US)     35 / 249       
maximums_webb,
probably many governerns here will have much more than 6-8 lx palaces in a block. Tomek used 10 in each block in Amphipolis but I think even when not using forced walkers with a few more places still the blocks could work good. Some time ago for ordinary cities I designed a few lx palaces. Certainly the number of structures(statues etc.) are too much there but could be reduced. here is the link if you would like having a look.

EJ,
For calculating the efficiency of a block I always use the ratio 'Population/Number of Structures' in a block. I think if the population is higher than 40 per structure (including farms etc.), a block could be considered as a good one. I will use the fishing blocks in Ephesus here too for plebs since the ratio was over 48 there and I dont know a better block.

I was too tired and missed a detail. The non-wheat farms produce less so their distance can be further wich allows more flexibility for farm placings. So I'm one step closer to solve this problem too.

BTW, I have to say its a fun building with others simultaneously such cities. I absolutely love palaces. I'm sure many of you will come with ideas wich others missed. I will not show immediately my city if I can complete earlier than most players here since I dont want to affect your original plans.

goonsquad,
you idea about arches is actually a good one. I had thought of allowing arches by editing the sav file but I didnt like that idea since it would be cheating. Even if their number is limited to distant battles still it could be interesting using them.

[This message has been edited by philon (edited 10-22-2003 @ 03:35 AM).]

EJay
Pleb
(id: EmperorJay)
posted 10-22-03 08:35 ET (US)     36 / 249       
I placed the non-wheat farms at the end of the farmland as well. I'll try to use the population/building ratio to see where it ends. Atm however, I'm already producing for my palaces, but I haven't placed a single palace yet.

I've did some calculation. You would need 2400 units per year for 100 palaces (2 units per month x 12 months x 100 palaces). Given that a Pottery Workshop (or Furniture Workshop or whatever) produces 460 units per year (4.6 cartloads). I would only need 6 pottery workshops to supply 100 palaces!!

Could anyone tell me where I made a mistake here.

I must note that the various fansites mostly the Apian Way and Which Way to Rome have been a great help.

Another note: The consument rates for foods are diffirent.

Tomek
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 10-22-03 10:09 ET (US)     37 / 249       
i had 6 oil, 6 furniture and 12 wine workshops for 100 palaces, so the calculations must be good, as far as the goods.
EJay
Pleb
(id: EmperorJay)
posted 10-22-03 10:17 ET (US)     38 / 249       
Hmm that's great.. I can save a lot of workers that way. Thank you.
philon
Pleb
posted 10-22-03 12:05 ET (US)     39 / 249       
Hi EJ,
a workshop produces 4,8 carts a year. So actually 5 pottery workshops would produce exactly the same amounth 100 palaces would spend.Brugle here gives the numbers correctly.

When evolving houses one difficulty I saw in the past was caused because the house stocks. I think for food there wont be much problems here since the palaces wont be immediately full and food consumption depends on population. But for goods I think having a good stock (maybe one more temporary warehouse) would be a useful idea. Another way would be overproducing for some time or devolving some of the houses untill all others have a good stock.
During the time houses stock food or goods markets will deliver more of them so either this would mean having extra markets would be useful or having just enough markets might look insufficient until stocks are good. Certainly these differences wouldnt be so important for just a few palaces in a block.

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 10-22-03 12:13 ET (US)     40 / 249       
Clifford,
Unless I missed it, nobody answered your question in reply #3. Per month, in terms of units, 1 full luxury palace requires 2 pottery, 2 furniture, 2 oil, 4 wine, and 33 each of 3 kinds of food. Per year, in terms of cartloads, 8 full luxury palaces require 1.92 pottery, 1.92 furniture, 1.92 oil, 3.84 wine, and 31.68 each of 3 kinds of food. By the way, I'd recommend using large tents instead of small tents.
Tomek
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 10-22-03 12:34 ET (US)     41 / 249       
i checked some consumptionn data, here it is:

i used a block of 100 full LPs /in 10 almost similar sub-blocks; sometimes connected at the "end" to spare some entertainment buildings/ and some plebeians to provide worker access, 712 of the plebeians eating wheat /the block was separated from the other parts of the city/. for this block i used 6-6 pottery, furniture and oil workshops and 12 wine workshops. this might be more than needed, but i wanted to avoid seeing devolving palaces, so slightly overproduced everything. there were 6 SY's for the block, still a little bit too much, but you can't micromanage them as good as in Pharaoh, and i did not want to interfere to the distribution every year, so i built 2 more to the original 4. there were 21 wharves, 43 vegetable and 27 wheat farms, delivering to 12 granaries; again too much, but wanted to avoid of lack of free place and so too much sprites on the streets.

EJay
Pleb
(id: EmperorJay)
posted 10-22-03 13:42 ET (US)     42 / 249       
*scratches head* I had to restart anyway because of some setup problems, but I think I have ~75 wheat farms

I'm still trying to get it all palaces along one road, so I'm going to overproduce somewhat as well to easy up distribution.

Clifford
Pleb
posted 10-22-03 17:08 ET (US)     43 / 249       
Thanks Brugle , I need to know these things because as you know I just rush in. All these numbers per 100 palaces help a lot when doing this.

I played my map some more last night. Got to 95 stable Luxury palaces but had a few workers lacking (29,000 pop) and so went for another 10 palaces and another small tent block. I have 2x2 small tents holding 20 people each because I thought that was better than suppling water and using resivors and fountins. Without checking how many does a 2x2 tent hold with water provided. My brain is not working at present and I just can't think of the difference. As soon as I put c3 on again I will check.

But back to my story. I must have been close to the walker sprite limit but don't think I hit it. Then I hit the building sprite limit and everything fell apart. My palaces strted devolving and then becasue they split up the sprite limit went crazy because I had exceeded the limit on the map. All sorts of things started happening. So I will have to go back to an earlier save. I have saves at 84 palaces and 95 palaces. I was just trying to get over 100. So I know I can do it, its just a question of getting things sorted. Something like this you blokes that work everything out first and do your plans are at an advantage over someone like me who just goes ahead and learns as I go. Different sorts of people I guess. Still its nice that different types of people can enjoy the same game. I think we are going to see some great cities as a result of this thread. You are doing great governers.

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 10-22-03 20:20 ET (US)     44 / 249       
Clifford,

A 2x2 small tent holds 20 people. A 2x2 large tent (which needs water) holds 28 people. Therefore, if a well could supply water to at least 3 2x2 houses then it would be better to use large tents (3 2x2 large tents plus 1 well hold 84 people, while 4 2x2 small tents hold only 80 people). The question of whether to supply water with wells or reservoirs is much more complicated, depending on the number of houses per well, the number of houses per fountain, the number of fountains per reservoir, and the fraction of plebians who work. The question of whether to use small casas is also quite complicated, since it involves walker sprites as well as building sprites.

I am curious why "everything fell apart" when you reached the building sprite limit. All that should happen is you can't build anything. (Typically, things fall apart when a city reaches the walker sprite limit.)

Clifford
Pleb
posted 10-22-03 22:50 ET (US)     45 / 249       
Maybe it was the walker limit as well then. But immigrants and fishing boats seemed to be unaffected. I will check again when I play C3. Lots of things happened when palaces started devolving like houses and other palaces disappearing off the map. As you know when a palace devolves it splits into several houses. This seemed to upset the game a lot as I was on the sprite limit at the time. Really too much was going for me to take a proper interest in it. But lots of houses vanished including some palaces. They just didn't go back to house signs. They vanished altogether. BTW this was in my last block I was developing. The other stable blocks were unaffected.

But I shouldn't have too much trouble getting to 100. I will not get anywhere near 200 though. I'll leave that for Phil and other great players. I will be happy with getting just over 100 . After all only a couple of players have done that, that we know about so far.

Clifford
Pleb
posted 10-23-03 06:27 ET (US)     46 / 249       
Nearly had it. Had 100 palaces for a few seconds. Sorted out the two large ones. Oracles seem to work better than anything else. And looked around at my handiwork. 100 luxury palaces and the next thing I know one starts devolving to a small palace. So i tried to find out the cause and while I was fixing that a whole block ran out of wine. So my best save is 99 luxury palaces and problems. It is not so easy I tell you. I will probably start again and better next time.
Details; CR 23, PR 100 PEACE 100, FAVOR 73 (gifts)
POP; 30,798 DN: 463,798 (18% taxed at 7%)
561 unemployed (11%) 4354 workers at 14Dn (Rome 5Dn)
Northern map with 45 wheat, 40 fruit and 34 fishing wharfs.
12 schools,11 academys and 10 Libary's.
2 theatres, 2 ampitheatres, 1 colossum and 1 hippodrome.
39 small temples, 28 large temples and 30 oracles. all gods happy. No festivals for 365 months.
11 baths,11 barbers, 12 clinics and 11 hospitals.
4/8 pottery,3/7 furniture,3/6 oil and 10/16 wine.
9 graneries, 15 wharehouses (inc one full of marble).
Time April AD 33 start AD 0.
1 block of 15 lux palaces,7 x 10 palaces,1 x 9 palace and 1 x 6 palaces. The 15 was the last one I tried and it was going to be 20 and still could be but its harder to do. The first devolving palace was in the 6-block.


I think it must have been the walker sprite because I had plenty of food and goods but the markets weren't full after a while.


Good fun but I can't claim to have got there yet. But oh, so close.

Tomek
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 10-23-03 06:53 ET (US)     47 / 249       
try to catch the moment just before devolving starts, and click on a would-be-devolving palace to find out what the problem is. probably the "venues are crowded", and adding 1-2 more theaters solves the problem

a good method to check sprite limit is watching a shipyard regularly: if its already-built ship disappears or moves to a wharf, than you reached the limit.

a "good way" to reach sprite limit if you let your palaces evolve simultanously; that might mean 100 immigrants - 100 unneaded sprites - on the map at the same time. finish one block, and continue an other, or build only 1-2 palaces in a block, run the game on 100% game speed, wait until the palaces are full and continue with other ones. begin with those palaces that are further from the entry point, and finish with the closer ones.

EJay
Pleb
(id: EmperorJay)
posted 10-23-03 06:59 ET (US)     48 / 249       
May I ask why you chose to use the northern climate?

Since wheat production is halved in northern climats, I chose for the central climate. The workers and sprites saved by not having to build prefectures didn't outweigh the need for extra farms.

philon
Pleb
posted 10-23-03 12:37 ET (US)     49 / 249       
I think the desicion between northern or central province is not so easy and depends on your plans.
100 palaces would require 400 cartloads food of each of the three kinds. You would need either 21 or 42 wheat farms depending on the province. If only fish is used for plebs a noththern climate would be better with this plan since there will be more than 21 prefects in total. Certainly you would need more space for farms, farm placings would be more complicated and labor problems might occur.
I have decided to try it first on a central province since I want to build at least 200 palaces and space is a serious problem.
Currently I'm working on a huge palace block but couldnt get it work yet. I dont want to use blocks with 40 or 60 palaces and I want the blocks bigger but its not easy. Probably thats the part wich I like most when building a city. I mean having a few serious problems to solve and the need for finding new ideas to get around.
EJay
Pleb
(id: EmperorJay)
posted 10-24-03 09:24 ET (US)     50 / 249       
I'm going to restart this evening. I didn't set the river entry and exit points and thus I could only import vines not wine. Therefore I couldn't get 2 wines.

I'm again going to try to support my palaces with small casa, but I'm going to build less farms and workshops.

Does anyone know how far away a granary has to be from a market before it is too distant?

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