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Caesar IV Heaven » Forums » The Town Square » Compilation & Pros-Cons of City building games
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Topic Subject:Compilation & Pros-Cons of City building games
TimurTheEmperor
Pleb
posted 11-07-11 20:34 ET (US)         
Hello , as a person who played all of City Building series to the end ( erm , actually havent played Caesar that much), i will compare them and tell pros and cons about them all , maybe i can help to folks who have questions at their minds
By the way this includes Caesar , Pharaoh(Cleopatra) , Zeus(Poseidon) , Emperor : Rise of Middle Kingdom. Feel free to add anything i miss.

Zeus & Poseidon
PROS
---------------
-Easiest of them overall
-Monuments build fast
-Villagers talk humorously (E.g. a philosopher says ` I have come down from mount olympos etc. )
-You can call mythical heroes ( Hercul etc. )
-A lot of gods to worship
-Easy to employ a foundation
-Houses evolve easy ( not villas lol)
-Disasters and risks(damage - fire etc) dont occur frequently
-Cartoonish graphics (especially monuments)
CONS
---------------
-Building an army isnt easy( houses must evolve in order to train army )
-Random mythical monsters attack ( Medusa etc. ) and you need to call an hero to slay it which is hell to provide his/her requirements...
-There arent that much different monuments
-The villas(better quality houses) are hell to be evolved.

Pharaoh & Clepatra expansion
PROS
----------------
-Above average difficult
-Many different kinds of monuments
-Making army aint hard
-Musics are awesome
-If u worship Seth you win
-Really feels like you play in Ancient Egpyt
-Monuments look awesome (my favourite is Sphinx)
CONS
-----------------
-Building a monument is erm....... like hell.
-The worst problem in this game is , when you build a foundation , you need to build houses near it to employ it .(In other games whereever you build the houses, even thou u build the foundation at the edge of the map it gets employed , in this game not .)
-Water is a great problem ( its Egpyt , remember ? )
-Risks occur frequently ( disease,fire etc.)
-Gods get upset too quick and destroy something specific to them ( E.g. ptah destroys a storage yard)
-Placing farms on flood area personally makes me sick.
-Bridges aint that long.
-If you make Pharaoh angry, he attacks you with an army that only cheating can defeat.

Caesar
As i said , i didnt play this game that much , but other than this games fellow games ( above ) , this game has no pros over then but only cons .
= Disasters happen a lot ( volcano earthquake etc.) , risks happen a lot , someone attacks you a lot ....

Emperor : Rise of the Middle Kingdom (China)
PROS
-----------------------
Best graphics overall(and best resolution)
Medium difficulty
Monuments look really nice
You play in 3 different ages(ancient , medieval and a bit further)
Quests are really enjoying
There is no god to punish you
You can tame animals and keep them in palace
CONS
---------------------
Floods happen frequently and destroys not only area clsoe to shore , they go even further close to center
-There are qualities of foods which is hell to make them stable(plain, apetizing etc.)
-Enemy armies attack frequently and attack when your situation is bad(spies)
-Building monument is a bit faster than Pharaohs`


Thats all i can add , again , if u have something to add, please go on. Cheers
AuthorReplies:
GovernorSimulus
Pleb
posted 11-07-11 21:28 ET (US)     1 / 14       
Hi TimurTheEmperor, if someone hasn't told you this before then welcome to HeavenGames.

I am most experienced with CaesarIII, so I will comment on your pro's and con's mostly from that perspective. Anything I don't comment on I pretty much agree with you.

In CaesarIII and Pharaoh you must build houses near buildings that need labor. CaesarIII and Zeus are NOT alike in this respect.

I personally think CaesarIII is the most challanging because of the lack of control over markets, no roadblocks and the above mentioned need to keep at least a few houses near even the most out-lying area of the city. Combine this with a maximum market buying range and a maximum efficient distance between farms and granaries and you have some interesting design challanges (which can be pro or con for different people).

I find evolving elite housing in Zeus far easier than in C3 or Pharaoh, all you need are; money (300dr per house), boulevards (more money!) lots of stored up fleece and oil (one cartload taken just for setting down the house), lots of culture and tax and maintance offices. This is actually simpler than common housing who need nearly the same stuff plus infirmery and fountain; both of whom send out the shortest range walkers in the game (and thus a block large enough to use just of each one culture building, maint+tax offices and agora needs two fountains, all for less taxes and no hoplites).

I won't even get into the complication of evolving elites in the other two games, plus the fact that you have to carefully prevent the premature evolvution from common houses lest you suddenly have an unexpected massive worker shortage on your hands.

My favorite monuments in Pharaoh are pyramids and the sun temple. I personally find the sphinx somewhat cartoonish. That's just my personal opinion though.
Senseisan
Pleb
posted 11-08-11 03:03 ET (US)     2 / 14       
I apologize , bt there is some items I don't understand :

Pharao/Cleo

-Water is a great problem
You can easily water nearly the whole map ( in the maps of the game ...)

-Risks occur frequently ( disease,fire etc.) There are buildings to avoid them ...


-Gods get upset too quick and destroy something specific to them ( E.g. ptah destroys a storage yard) Just set enough temples/shrines to keep them at bay .


Emperor

There is no god to punish you
Build a city whithout ancestors shrines and see what happens ...


Floods happen frequently and destroys not only area clsoe to shore , they go even further close to center
Just set a wall along deep waters , you loose only some warves.


In my mind , the CONS for Zeus and Emperor is no buid-in long walk ( except for a few buildings in Zeus ) , in case of need you can only use switched walkers , that can be " just a little " tedious ...

[This message has been edited by Senseisan (edited 11-08-2011 @ 03:11 AM).]

GovernorSimulus
Pleb
posted 11-08-11 18:51 ET (US)     3 / 14       
Senseisan: Which Zeus walkers can be forced walkers? And could you give me a short, simple explanation of "switched walkers?"
Senseisan
Pleb
posted 11-09-11 00:45 ET (US)     4 / 14       
In Zeus/Poseidon water carriers and medics can use " long walk " , as their prefered tiles Out and In are different .
Switched walkers are walkers who must walk a long path returning home , as the shortest return path is cut behind them by deleting a tile of road . Obviously , the city needs permanent management of walkers ...
Caring more than two loops is nearly impossible * .
A city of Emperor using switched walkers :


Edit * If you switch all the walkers , but you can easily care 5_6 loops if SW is used only for water carriage :

The problem :

There are only 5 tiles of grass in the middle of the map ...

The solution , 25800 guys whith 5 wells :

[This message has been edited by Senseisan (edited 11-09-2011 @ 01:00 AM).]

TimurTheEmperor
Pleb
posted 11-10-11 15:53 ET (US)     5 / 14       
Dude , you clearly got the things wrong . I dont say `you cant avoid fires , collapses etc. ` , i just say they are harder than others. Why bother replying i dont understand, and by the way , Chinese heroes-ancestors(equavalent of gods of other games) they dont punish you if you dont tribute them or worship them , they are needed for giving some entertainments to city and completing quests , please get the points before rage. And yes , in egpyt there is water problem. You cant make wells - water supplies to place distant to Nile or in desert. Thanks
Senseisan
Pleb
posted 11-11-11 05:12 ET (US)     6 / 14       
they dont punish you if you dont tribute them or worship them They just send you some earthquakes , floods , and so on .Seems that playing at " Very easy " keep them at bay .

In pharao/cleo , you can carry water to any spot less than ~240 tiles far from grass , that's enough to cover nearly the whole map .Here is a custom map ( huge , desertic) whith a little pond in the middle and watered houses in each corner .
http://www.gamefront.com/files/20982859/Corners.sav



A Pros for Zeus and Emperor is that the preset 2x2 houses allow special settings , like kite blocks . I tried them in Pharao/ C3 , but it is much more difficult ...

[This message has been edited by Senseisan (edited 11-12-2011 @ 12:48 PM).]

TimurTheEmperor
Pleb
posted 11-20-11 10:05 ET (US)     7 / 14       
No , i always play at Normal difficulty (all of them). And from what i have seen the Ancestors in Emperor has nothing to do with disasters , they just occur random (if you have a look at custom game options you can see disasters frequency and adjust it ) , and about water in Pharaoh , well point of this topic is that pointing out the specialities of game , diferencies etc. As you can say it is possible to carry water in Pharaoh everywhere but do you think a beginner player can do that ? My point was that if you build houses deep in desert(generally near Ores) you cant have a water near so you have to do something -- which doesnt happen in Other games...
Morgan Allen
Guest
posted 02-21-12 13:21 ET (US)     8 / 14       
Edited.

[This message has been edited by Morgan Allen (edited 02-27-2012 @ 09:03 AM).]

maydayp
Pleb
posted 02-21-12 23:07 ET (US)     9 / 14       
I've only played C3 and pharoah, and as I've said in other topics, I find C3 much harder then Pharoah.
actually I like most everything in pharoah better then C3 (though it's probably because I played pharoah first, and have spent a LOT more time on it then C3.)

I basically only play my own maps, but I have no problem with fires or destruction. I haven't even need to change my building style that much to adjust from very easy to what ever difficulty I'm playing on now.
and I just haven't been able to figure our c3. which makes me less likely to play it. 'cause it's not fun if I can't figure it out. lol.
GovernorSimulus
Pleb
posted 02-22-12 16:47 ET (US)     10 / 14       
maydayp: What specifically can't you "figure out" about CaesarIII, if I may ask?
Morgan Allen
Guest
posted 02-22-12 22:56 ET (US)     11 / 14       
Edited.

[This message has been edited by Morgan Allen (edited 02-27-2012 @ 09:03 AM).]

Morgan Allen
Guest
posted 02-27-12 18:06 ET (US)     12 / 14       
I apologise if I disrupted the discussion.
maydayp
Pleb
posted 02-27-12 19:07 ET (US)     13 / 14       
morgan, I don't think that your oppinions ditrupted the discussion.
I, myself have just been trying to figure out the best way to respond to the question above your posts and the comment you made.

I have a hard time dealing with building things in c3, I haven't been able to figure out how do do so, and not run into a massive lack of workers, 'cause I can't seem to figure out a large population housing style, not that I've given it much of a try, as I've only made it like 4 levels into the game (yes, I greatly prefer playing a glitchy pharoah...I have a known and successful playing style, then a game I've yet to master). I always run out of money as well, which makes it even harder
GovernorSimulus
Pleb
posted 02-28-12 11:05 ET (US)     14 / 14       
I have a hard time dealing with building things in c3, I haven't been able to figure out how do do so, and not run into a massive lack of workers 'cause I can't seem to figure out a large population housing style, not that I've given it much of a try, as I've only made it like 4 levels into the game (yes, I greatly prefer playing a glitchy pharoah...I have a known and successful playing style, then a game I've yet to master).
Figure out how many farms/wharves/industries you'll need before hand and don't build any more than that. Build a minimum of needed service buildings by clusting housing into relatively few housing blocks with as few intersections as possible. Use a trial-and-error approach wile watching service walkers on overlays to figure out where to put down service buildings.
I always run out of money as well, which makes it even harder
Caesar Alan made a post about this a million years ago, in summary:

1. A few hundread population in tents (give them all water and make sure they ugrade to large tent and they're 7 residents per tile) with minimal water/fire/engineer/doctor services, no food.

2. Figure out what industries you'll need for exportand build them and start exporting.

3. Try to sell something by the end of year 1. Turn a net profit by the end of year 2. Do not begin to feed the folks before year 3, if not well afterward. Try to manipulate Neptune's mood by deleting and then, after he is "Angry," building a surplus of Neptune temples and giving him an un-ending string of small festivals (bigger ones make no difference) so that he will give you a blessing toward the beginning of some years. This will double your trade profits in those years.

I usually have a full second year of profit and treasury building-up in year 3 wile building the needed buildings for my farming/fishing district, wile turning farms/wharves off. This is built with the year 3 profits. I then switch labor from export industries to food production in year 4 and have all folks living in small hovels (water+prefect+engineer+food+religion to evolve) by the end of year 4. Hovels house twice the number of people as tents (13 vs. 7) so when the new immegrants file in to the newly upgraded houses I now have enough labor surplus to turn exports back on just in time to avoid my treasury going into the red.

4. If you have a pressing early demand for money, such as rapid miliary expansion, you may need to delay feeding your folks by a year or two to switch precious trade profits to that task instead. You may also try to court a blessing from Mars as that can often take out the initial invasion in all but the toughest military missions without you needing a single soldier. This often allows you to delay military mobilization by a few more years, years in which you could be feeding the folks and getting more revenue so the military build-up isn't as financially crushing.

5. Once the folks are fed and in half-decent housing, you have a revenue source going (might as well put some forums in each of your hovel neighborhoods to get a little tax money wile your at it; it may not be much, but it can sometimes be the difference between staying finacially afloat and slow, paralyzing fiscal death) and defenses up and running then its really just a matter of population expansion; building more neighborhoods, more food sources, upgrading houses through more services (efficiently delivered) and goods (minimum calculated industries needed), expanding export industries and the military, all as money allows.

Hope that hleps a bit maydayp.
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