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Caesar IV Heaven » Forums » Zeus: Game Help » On the Building of Sanctuaries
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Topic Subject:On the Building of Sanctuaries
Vriesea
Pleb
posted 01-12-01 16:15 ET (US)         
Opening this thread on the building of sanctuaries. Hopefully my observations will take the mystery out of sanctuary construction and allow forum members to build more effectively and efficiently when a God is needed to bless the city.

This is a somewhat long post and I'll order it as such:

SANCTUARY BASICS (1st post) - Just what is says, can be skipped if you know it.

SANCTUARY CONSTRUCTION PHASES (2nd post) - Goes through the process of building a sanctuary. Good information on what is really happening at the construction site.

EFFECTIVE SANCTUARY BUILDING (3rd post) - How to short cut your sanctuary building process. Contains "Best Practices" based on observations.

GLYPH OF CONSTRUCTION SITE (3rd post) - What works for me, or applying "Best Practices" to the construction site.

SANCTUARY BASICS:

* Sanctuaries are homes of the Gods. There are twelve Gods and 12 different sanctuaries. Each sanctuaries has different physical characteristics which translates to different amounts of materials needed during its construction. In addition, each sanctuary has a different prerequisite of marble before the foundation can be placed.

* All sanctuaries require three types of construction materials: marble, wood, and sculpture.

* Each artisan house will usually send a single worker to the construction site, where he will request construction materials, and use those materials to build a portion of the sanctuary. Note: I say usually because the artisan does not stay at the site through all construction stages.

* Requested materials will be issued from a storage yard or trader post. A road must connect the sanctuary to the storage yard or trader post issuing the materials. Construction materials can not be issued cross country. Ox carts issuing the materials will pass through road blocks.

* Storage yards issuing the construction materials can be in a "Getting" or "Accepting" mode.

Next post: Sanctuary Construction Phases

AuthorReplies:
Vriesea
Pleb
posted 01-12-01 16:16 ET (US)     1 / 17       
SANCTUARY CONSTRUCTION PHASES

After the foundation is placed, the sanctuary in built in three phases:

* 1st Phase - Placing of the tiles
* 2nd Phase - Construction of the chapel or sanctuary structure
* 3rd Phase - Sculptures, Carved Statures, and Altar(s)

1st Phase - Placing of the Tiles

The number of tiles placed depends on the complexity of the sanctuary. For example, the Artemis Sanctuary will require 38 tiles placed by the artisans, Zeus's Sanctuary will require 170 tiles. Some facts on the "Placing of the Tiles" construction phase:

* At the construction site an artisan will request marble to be delivered to the sanctuary for the placement of 1 tile. The amount of marble needed for 1 tile is ½ a marble slab.

* The storage yard or trading post will deliver marble to the sanctuary at the rate of 1 marble slab per ox cart. One slab of marble will satisfy the request of two artisans. Since ½ slabs cannot be delivered the number of slabs of marble sent to the sanctuary equals the number of requesting artisans divided by 2. If there is a fraction it is rounded up. Thus 1 artisan will get 1 slab of marble delivered, 2 artisans will get 1 slab of marble delivered, 3 artisans will get 2 slabs of marble delivered, 4 artisans will get 2 slabs of marble delivered, and so forth.

* While the marble is being delivered the artisan(s) position themselves at the tile location. When the marble reaches the sanctuary and the artisan is in position the artisan will hammer the tile in place.

* Important!!! The artisan must then move to the next tile position before the next marble slab can be requested and thus issued from the storage yard or trading post.

* Important!!! After positioning 8 tiles there will be a work stoppage by each artisan. The artisan will disappear from the sanctuary and then be regenerated at the artisan house. This work stoppage will slow down the 1st phase of work as it takes time for the artisan to regenerate and return to the construction site.

Advantages of multiple Artisans over the single Artisan in 1st Phase

Having multiple Artisans speeds up the “Placing of the Tiles” phase for the following reasons:

* More marble slabs are requested and sent to the sanctuary to be processed in a requesting time period. Example: 1 Artisan will receive 1 marble slab during a requesting time period, 5 Artisans will receive 3 marble slabs during a requesting time period.

* Multiple artisans are able to work currently. Example: With 4 Artisans, number 1 Artisan can be hammering in tile 1 while number 2 Artisan is hammering in tile 2, ...

* Multiple Artisans are more efficient in positioning themselves for the placement of the tile. Example: With 4 Artisans, number 1 Artisan will position himself at the location of the 1st tile, then position himself at the 5th tile, then position himself at the 9th tile, …

* Multiple artisans will place more tiles before the schedule work stoppage, and multiple artisans will all take the work stoppage at approximately the same time. Remember a work stoppage will occur after 8 tiles are placed. Thus if 1 Artisan were placing 32 tiles, a work stoppage would occur after the placement of tiles 8, 16, 24, and 32. If 4 Artisans were placing 32 tiles, each of the 4 Artisans would take one work stoppage but it would be respectively after placing tiles 29, 30, 31, 32 and all at the same time!

2nd Construction Phase – Construction of the Chapel or Sanctuary Structure

After all tiles are in place. Construction of the chapel or sanctuary structure begins. The chapel or structure will differ in complexity depending on the sanctuary. All sanctuary structures will require the artisan to make 3 requests. The amount of materials requested for the structure will differ depending on the sanctuary. For example, the Artemis and Zeus structure will require three requests and 8 marble slab and 4 wood for each request. The Aphrodite structure will require three requests but only 4 marble and 2 wood for each request.

Important!! The work force for the 2nd construction phase is reduced to a single artisan. So for example, if you have 1 Artisan house or 4 Artisan houses, this phase of work will take the same amount of construction time since only 1 Artisan is involved in this Phase.

The 2nd construction phase is the first time wood is requested (scaffolding) so in planning your structure it is easy to calculate the number of marble that will be processed before wood is to be used. Take the number of tiles/2 = marble slabs required before wood is needed.

3rd Construction Phase – Sculptures, Carved Statures, and Altar(s)

After the construction of the chapel or structure is completed the final phase of construction takes place. This phase will consist of the sculpture placement, carving the God's image, and construction of the altar(s). The number of sculptures, carvings, and altars is dependent on the sanctuary.

Sculpture Placement – Phase 3 is the first time sculptures are requested at the construction site. The placement of the sculptures is performed initially and may be concurrent to the carving of the stature if you are employing multiple Artisans. Multiple Artisans will request the sculptures and position themselves at the sculpture location. When the sculpture is delivered it is placed by the Artisan and he will them move to the next position and request the next sculpture.

Important!!! There does not seem to be a limiting number of delivery ox carts to the sanctuary. Sculptures are delivered to the sanctuary one sculpture per ox cart. So if 6 artisans are requesting sculptures and 6 sculptures are available at a storage yard, you will see 6 ox carts leave the storage yard on there way to the sanctuary.

Carving of the Statue(s) – The carving of the God's image(s) is performed by a single artisan and will take two requests of material by the artisan. For example, the Artisan will initially request material for a carving and the ox carts will deliver 8 marble and 4 wood. After the materials are delivered, a huge slab of marble will appear in the front of the sanctuary with the artisan at the base. At this point the Artisan will make a second request and the ox carts will deliver another 8 marble and 4 wood. After the second request the sculpture will be carved and completed. Note: Many players will sometimes think the sanctuary construction has frozen or halted between these two requests when actually the game is trying to find the necessary materials to satisfy the second request. (Happened to me more than once). The number of carvings is one or two dependent on the sanctuary complexity.

Altar – The placement of the altar(s) is the final step in the 3rd phase of construction. The altar is constructed by the artisan who requests 4 marble for each altar.

Next Post: Effective Sanctuary Building & Glyph of Construction Site

[This message has been edited by Vriesea (edited 01-13-2001).]

Vriesea
Pleb
posted 01-12-01 16:18 ET (US)     2 / 17       
EFFECTIVE SANCTUARY BUILDING:

Knowing the steps and observing the phases of construction allows one to build more effectively and efficiently. I was able to shorten the building of an Artemis Sanctuary from 20 months to 5 months by using proper and efficient construction methods. I was also able to build the Zeus Sanctuary in 12 game months with most materials available. Here are some of my observations and “Best Practices” in sanctuary construction. Reference the attached glyph for an example of my construction site.

Construction materials should as close as possbile to the construction site.

* If possible, have all materials available or the majority of materials available in storage yards (preferred) or trading posts close to the sanctuary (see glyph). This is easier said then done for we have all played those games where the trading post or raw material site is far away. If this is the situation, make an effort ahead of time to start your importing or mining of raw materials. As indicated previously, my preference is to detach these sources from the site and then move them to the site in preparation for the construction.

* I prefer multiple storage yards (one for each material) and my preference is to only connect a single marble, wood, and sculpture storage yard to the sanctuary by a road. These single connected storage yards will be in a “Getting” mode. They will be getting marble, wood, and statues from a non-connected “Accepting” storage yard close to the construction site (see glyph). Thus the delivery of materials to the sanctuary and the replenishing of materials from a nearby storage yard can be done concurrently.

* Remember the sanctuary will only select materials from a trading post or storage yard that is connected back to the sanctuary by a road. If you only connect the sanctuary to a single marble, wood or stature storage yard you will always know what storage yard will be selected. Note: When multiple storage yards of the same material are used, the one selected to deliver material is not always the closest, has the most or least material, or not necessary in an “Accepting” or “Getting” mode. It seems to be selected at random or at best I can tell it is selected by location closest to the material source. Having only one storage yard (for each material) connected to the sanctuary by a road eliminates the guessing.

The number of Artisans required can be determined by listening..

* The number of artisans required at a site depends on the building material available. If the materials are not available providing multiple Artisans will just result in a lot of standing around. Important!! A good rule of thumb is to look and listen! If you hear continuing hammering the chances are you have the right number of artisans for the materials being delivered. If the hammering is intermittent and the artisan(s) are spending a lot of time moving between positions the chances are you do not have enough artisans to perform the work. If the hammering is intermittent/nonexistent and the artisans are spending a lot of time standing around the chances are you are not getting the requested material at the construction site. I have found 4 to 6 Artisans a good balance when all materials are available. Fewer is non-effective, more does not make that much difference in shorting the constructing time.

Other factors in determining the number of Artisans:

* Work force available. – An artisan house requires a work force of 25. Clearly you need to look at your overall work force in assigning artisans.

* Phase of construction - The 1st phase of construction takes approximately 40% to 70% of the construction effort. It is most effective to have more of your Artisans working in this phase. Remember in the second phase of work only 1 Artisan is required so multiple Artisans do not contribute in the second phase of work. The last Phase of construction is effective with multiple Artisans but multiple sculptures must also be available.

Place the Artisan houses close to the construction site.

* I typically place the Artisans houses on a separate road close to and connected to the sanctuary (see glyph). This shortens the distance the Artisans must walk from the artisan house to the construction site. Remember Artisan(s) will make the walk from the house to the construction site at the beginning of Phase 1 and when they are regenerated after a work stoppage. In addition, multiple Artisans will make that walk at the beginning of Phase 3.

* I do not surround my sanctuary with a road during the construction phase. If you do this you have little control over where the materials are delivered and where the Artisans will enter the construction site. I find that the entry point with a surrounded road is in the rear of the sanctuary close to the (0,0) coordinate (reference the Sanctuary.txt file in the Zeus folder). I may surround the sanctuary with an avenue or boulevard only after the construction is completed.


Glyph of Sanctuary Construction Site:



Legend

Notes:

* Pillars outline the Artemis Sanctuary. North is top.
* The Glyph Builder was having problems with the Artisan glyph so I am using Towers to represent Artisan Houses.
* SYs adjacent to sanctuary are in a "Getting" mode, SYs detached are in an "Accepting" mode.
* It is assumed that all materials are at the construction site. If not, modes of SYs would have to change to "Getting" and/or micro management would be required.
* Bottom SYs are marble, followed by sculpture, followed by wood.


Hope these three posts helped and made you more aware of the construction process. Welcome any comment to the above and encourage postings or glyphs of others construction sites.

Good gaming,
Vriesea

DarthBane
Pleb
posted 01-12-01 16:29 ET (US)     3 / 17       
Wow, great stuff! printing it now

I really needed this, I'm not much of a number cruncher, and was a little mystified about Sanctuaries

Nero Would
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 01-13-01 08:52 ET (US)     4 / 17       
This is great stuff Vriesea! I have a couple of questions though.

When you have an odd number of Artisans during phase I, do you lose marble? In other words, if 1 Artisan requests 1 load of marble, does he lay one tile and waste 0.5 load of marble, or does he lay 2 tiles? If he wastes marble, it would be important to have an even number of Artisans in phase I, if he lays 2 tiles, it would save labour to have an odd number.

I have had some trouble in the past with required materials not being delivered to the sanctuary despite a road connection. I was able to get the materials delivered by extending the road down one side of the sanctuary rather than having it touch only one tile. Have you seen anything like this?

Are you saying that each storage yard can generate many ox carts for deliveries to the sanctuary simultaneously, and in addition to the one performing the "get" order to get from a disconnected storehouse? That seems almost too good to be true. I always assumed they could each generate one at a time and I never even thought to check.

Thanks again for an excellent analysis.

forevervain
Pleb
posted 01-13-01 11:33 ET (US)     5 / 17       
This is really useful information!

Perhaps you could help me with a sanctuary problem I am having. I'm in the 5th episode of Zeus and Europa - Talos has been killed, and Aries is happily prancing around his sanctuary. To finish the episode I only have to build one more sanctuary. I chose Demeter. I use almost the EXACT layout you posted - the sanctuary has storehouses lining one side and four artisans on the other side. I have already collected *all* the marble, wood, and sculpture I need to complete the project. I put a road all the way around the sanctuary to make sure it was accessible. But for two hours now, my artisans just stand there, and every time I check the progress it says they are placing tiles and the sanctuary is 0% done. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks for any advice.


--
webcam: http://www.forevervain.com
"Beauty
is in the eye of the beholder,
But Vanity is a gift you give yourself." -Steve
Vriesea
Pleb
posted 01-13-01 12:38 ET (US)     6 / 17       
NeroWould:

You are very observant and get to heart of the report.

1) Your are correct. The marble does not go wasted. In fact, An odd number of artisans can said to be more efficient because they will always get an extra 1/2 slab of marble delivered to the sanctuary. So 4 artisans will get 2 slabs of marble but so will 3 artisans. Note: Although the 3 artisans get the extra 1/2 slab of marble they will take longer to place the 4 tiles since one artisan must now hammer 2 tiles. But my feelings are that the extra tile is much more benefical and time saving then the extra work for one artisan to lay two tiles. I would and have gone with an odd number of artesans to get more "bang for the buck"

2) Yes I have seen problems with single road connections. At previous attempts in designing my construction site I tried using single road entry points to my adjacent storage yards. So I had just 3 road squares connecting my 3 storage yards to the sanctuary. If I remember correctly, it worked for a while but then stopped working when my local ox cart returned from "Getting" 4 marble from an adjacent SY. As a result I extended the road the length of the SY and the problem went away. This was my observations and it seemed to me to be connected to the "Getting" ox cart. Would be interested in hearing if your SY was also in a "Getting" mode. As it is, it seems that there may be a "bug" in the program.

3) Yes, and I should have stressed this more in my initial posting! It is true that while ox carts are delivering to the sanctuary meeting an artisan request, their "Getting" ox carts (2) will be replacing the materials that leave the SY. So for example, what you will observe during a request by 6 artisans is three ox carts a single slab/cart delivering to the sanctuary while concurrently an ox cart is leaving the "Getting" SY and replenishing the marble with 4 marble slabs from a nearby "Accepting" SY. Note this process is so efficient that I never experienced the adjacent or "Getting" SY to run out of marble as long as the "Accepting" SY had marble in supply.

I will have to say however that with sculptures you may not experience the same efficiency for the following reasons: Multiple artisans, say 6, will request 6 sculptures. the six sculptures will leave immediately one after the other on 6 carts at 1 sculpture/cart. The replenishing ox carts (2) can only replenish at the rate of 1 sculpture/cart. As a result they are not able to replenish the "Getting" SY in time to meet the next 6 requests. So to get around this you can set up additional "Getting" SYs that handle sculptures. Note: This inefficiency only exists with the larger sanctuaries that have large numbers of sculptures (>8) to place.

Good gaming,
Vriesea

Vriesea
Pleb
posted 01-13-01 12:45 ET (US)     7 / 17       
Forevervain:

Hello and welcome to the forums

In your case I would make sure of two things:

1) Are you still stockpiling one of the sanctuary materials? This is a common occurance since we tend to stockpile goods to accumlate them then and forget we stockpiled the goods.

2) I would also check your work force and make sure your artisans are fully employeed. At 25 a crack it is easy not to meet employment requirements.

I'm sure the forum members might have other suggestions

Good gaming,
Vriesea

Nero Would
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 01-13-01 16:48 ET (US)     8 / 17       
Vriesea: Thanks for the replies. In the case of the storehouse that did not deliver to the sanctuary, I am almost certain that it was accepting and not getting, but I don't have the save to check. I seem to remember that the non-delivering storehouse was connected by road to one part of the sanctuary, and the delivering storehouses and artisans were connected to a different side of the sanctuary. It could even have been that the two roads were not connected at all, in which case this may be a variation of the problem with two unconnected road systems touching one building (the sanctuary in this case).

I think I may have one correction for your numbers of goods. I just built Ares (who has the smaller 4x4 temple) and the three requests for goods in phase II were each for 4 marble and 2 wood rather than 4 marble and 4 wood. I think this mau be the case with all the sanctuaries with small temples, while those with the 4x8 temples make three calls for 8 marble and 4 wood as you say.

Vriesea
Pleb
posted 01-13-01 17:38 ET (US)     9 / 17       
Nero Would:

You are correct, besides the 4 marble the smaller structures (temples) only require 2 wood not 4 wood at each request.

Misprinted it in the original post

Will make the correction to the original post.

Good gaming,
Vriesea

Baltic
Pleb
posted 01-14-01 10:57 ET (US)     10 / 17       
Excellent work Vriesea!
Given the fact that most of the time I was limited by availability of materials - and sometimes by available workforce - I found that 3 or 5 artisans are fine for most sanctuaries in the game. Of course, Zeus sanctuary requires at least 5 if you want to complete it in a decent time.
The fact that trading posts and piers deliver directly, and that getting storehouses can deliver at the same time, makes the construction almost too easy...

Regarding the getting, it seems to me that getting the materials to a nearby storehouse is vital during the first phase, but not too important when you start building the temple. If you can't stockpile the marble and wood near the sanctuary before this phase starts, it is often more effective to connect the construction site to the city roads as soon as the materials near site are used up (getting ox team goes there and back, delivering ox team goes only to the site and disappears - another one can be generated immediately).

Cherub Baltic

Vriesea
Pleb
posted 01-14-01 13:46 ET (US)     11 / 17       
Baltic:

You are correct in your observations about the early stages of city building and the construction of sanctuaries.

It's very obvious that in the early stages of building a city like Athens or Sparta which will require say four sanctuaries we will not have all the materials available at the 1st sanctuary site. But we can start planning for the location of materials for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th sanctuaries.

If you plan and think out your cities in advance and know where you will be building your future sanctuaries you can prepare the sites before hand and have the majority of materials available at the site before construction takes place.

In the case of the very first sanctuary you are absolutely correct. Your approach of using "Accepting" SYs at the mining site and "Getting" SYs at the sanctuary site would be the most efficient. This is true because as I indicated there seems to be an unlimited number of carts available at the "Getting" SY to deliver the material for the artisan. And the key is while the materials are being delivered to the artisans the SY's two "Getting" ox carts will be bringing in material from the mining sites.

I would also strongly recommend using detached SYs or trading posts as I indicated in the write-up. This is because if you connect the mining site to the sanctuary by roads your artisan may request materials at the SY located at the mining site. If it does, it may be comming in at the extremely slow rate of 1 slab of marble/cart (assuming 1st Phase). It is more efficient to detach the sanctuary site from the mining site and have the marble delivered at 4 slabs/cart to the sanctuary site when it can then be accessed at the slow rate of 1 slab/cart.

The glyph I drew would be more realistic for say the second, third, or fourth sanctuary site where your city is now over producing or importing building materials and you have the luxury of storing your excessive building materials at the future sanctuary site.

Good gaming,
Vriesea

Baltic
Pleb
posted 01-14-01 19:06 ET (US)     12 / 17       
Just so... . I didn't mention it, but I always tend to have several disconnected city parts. Maybe more a habit from Pharaoh, but it seems to help in Zeus as well. Therefore, connecting the sanctuary construction site to the city does not necessarily mean that it is connected to the marble mining area as well - most of the time this area is in some other disconnected part, and I can decide whether to connect it or not. If there are some nearer supplies of marble, then it can be possible to have them connected without connecting the mining area at the same time.

I probably didn't emphasize it enough - I absolutely agree with you that during 1-slab phase getting storehouses are much quicker than direct deliveries from distant storehouses, and that having the construction site connected to the city can drastically decrease the building speed - depending on the distances. What I was trying to say is, that once the first phase is finished, situation changes. You need either more than one storehouse in getting mode, or you should connect the construction site to the marble supplies. Especially the large sanctuaries can drain the supplies of marble very quickly during the second phase.

About planning... until now, I have not read any walkthrough to adventure I didn't play first, and I have not replayed any adventure. That means, I never knew how many sanctuaries will be required or available and when, so the planning was a bit limited for me...
The reason I was speaking about first (or unplanned, like if you were preparing to build Athena's near sheep and suddenly you need Hephaestus' near mining area quickly) sanctuary is, that if one has enough time to stockpile all materials on site, there is very little room for optimization left - at least compared to unprepared construction, and also, it does not play such a big role when you finish it. You need the speed most when suddenly a sanctuary is needed to call a hero before some monster destroys vital parts of your city.

Cherub Baltic

Orion
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 01-17-01 14:44 ET (US)     13 / 17       
Question professor! (yeah, you guys are writing history in this game)

Looking at your glyph I see that three SY are set to getting goods right next to the sanctuary but can they get goods from the SYs behind them without a road connection?
If there is a road connection then would it not create the problem that we are trying to avoid? (the sanctuary requesting from a SY other than the one getting=

Please enlighten me
Orion


"Let there be light!" said God and there was light.
"Let there be blood!" said man and there was a sea.
Nero Would
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 01-17-01 15:48 ET (US)     14 / 17       
Orion: Storehouse cart pushers need a road connection if they are delivering, but they don't need a road if they are performing the "get" order, they will go cross-country to "get" goods.
superdave7
Pleb
posted 10-23-05 00:48 ET (US)     15 / 17       
can anyone help
my artisen has laid 6 tiles and then he stoped
he is standing on the second step looking around
no marble is being transfered
i am building the drunk dudes grove
thank you in advance

[This message has been edited by superdave7 (edited 10-23-2005 @ 00:50 AM).]

Pecunia
CBH Seraph
posted 10-23-05 15:07 ET (US)     16 / 17       
Hi superdave7 and welcome to Zeus Heaven

Right-click the sanctuary to find out what it needs. Most likely, it needs 4 blocks of marble to build the temple part of the sanctuary. Those four blocks need to be in one single storehouse before they can be delivered.


Angel Pecunia | HG Downloads programmer and techie
Caesar IV Heaven | Children of the Nile Heaven | Citadel of Poseidon (Zeus/Poseidon) | The Great Wall (Emperor)
g_squidman
Pleb
posted 05-23-12 12:07 ET (US)     17 / 17       
i've tried your setup with the storage yards next the the sanctuary set to get marble from the tradining posts. it sounds like you're saying that if i have 3 artisans then two shipments of one marble each should go from the storage yard to the sanctuary via ox cart. i've never seen just one slab of marble in an ox cart though. no matter how many artisans i have, the marble seems to come in shipments of four slabs via the long ox cart. this means my storage yards cant get marble from the trading posts fast enough to keep up with the demand at the sanctuary.

G
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