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Caesar IV Heaven » Forums » Pharaoh: Game Help » Hectic Heh
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Topic Subject:Hectic Heh
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 09-06-18 16:13 ET (US)         
Over 5 years ago, after finishing Bubastis, I looked at the examples of Heh in the Downloads, trying to find some way to make mine unique. The only not-done idea that I found was walling (or almost walling) in the city, which would be nice but not much fun. So I put off Heh (instead building an Improved Immortal Iunet and a couple of C3 cities).

A recent Heh thread had this comment:
Coming in 2025, Brugle presents Hectic Heh :P
I have ignored Heh for too long! I looked at the more recent Hehs and saw nothing new. But I finally saw another way to make my Heh unique--build a "city center" (that may not be in the center of the city) with the palace, mansion, temple complex, festival square, and at least some of the best houses close together. By the way, if my Heh takes as long to design and build as my Iken, it will be completed in 2025!


I should follow these personal goals--the last two I have used only once before in a military mission (Iken):
* Except for the spoiler in the first reply, no "future knowledge" is used.
* Very Hard difficulty
* Prosperity 100
* No crummy houses
* The palace, mansion, temple complex, festival square, and best houses are close together
* There is regular traffic through the festival square
* All roads are connected
* No long (forced) walkers
* All schools, libraries, mortuaries, and senet houses are kept supplied with goods
* All entertainment venues have shows at least part of the time
* No personal funds
* No debt
* No cheats (including anything available for free)
* No deletions of anything I build (except in response to events), unless I screw up
* Walls surround the city except for gaps inside defensive positions
* No festivals


Heh is an unusual mission for multiple reasons.

At the start of the mission, there is no pottery, no papyrus, no linen, and no sandstone. Trade routes for those goods (or their raw materials) will be available later, presumably (from the mission briefing) after winning distant battles with warships or soldiers. If each of those goods comes from a different city by water, and if Buhen (a source of barley and beer) and Byblos (a source of copper) are opened, there will be 6 water trade routes.

To some extent, the design will depend on how much of the newly available goods can be imported, on whether those goods are finished products or can be manufactured, and perhaps on additional sources of income. The early city should generate lots of income and make enough soldiers and warships to win distant battles (and defend itself), but shouldn't constrain the rest of the city too much.

The hyenas cannot be fenced with their breeding grounds, since the breeding grounds are in large sand dunes. The only income (at the start of the mission) is from mining gold or selling gems and jewels, but there are hyena breeding grounds close to both areas where gold or gems can be mined.
AuthorReplies:
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 09-06-18 16:14 ET (US)     1 / 16       
Spoiler Warning
The only "future history" I will use is that there is no rescue grant. (You could imagine that I began the mission, found out that there was no grant, and started the mission over with a more economical plan, but I'm too lazy to do that.)
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 09-06-18 16:18 ET (US)     2 / 16       
Parts of the Design

Heh could be built only on the west bank. There is enough coastline for a dock, a shipwright, and 6 warships (or fewer warships if multiple docks are built). But as "The Gauntlet", it shouldn't let the Nubians roam around the east bank. Therefore, both banks will be settled (and defended).

2 side-by-side docks will be fairly near the middle of the west bank, beside a ferry crossing to the east bank. 6 storage yards will be close, so no docker goes more than 6 tiles each way. Gems and jewels and some of the imports will be stored only in those storage yards.

Assuming that the ship entry and exit points are in the north, it will take over 2 months for a ship to sail to and from the docks. Including trade and wait times, a ship could easily spend over 3 months in the city--4 months might be a good estimate. If so, the two available water trade routes at the start of the mission should send about 4 ships/year, which is plenty for Buhen but will somewhat limit the total exports to Byblos.

There will be 4 housing blocks, 3 on the west bank (the N, W, and S blocks) and 1 on the east bank (the E block). All of the bazaars should be close enough to obtain non-food goods from storage yards near the docks.

The palace will be northwest of the docks and their storage yards, close to the western gold ore and exploitable rocks. There will be 7 gold mines and at least 8 gem mines, maybe 10 gem mines if additional cities buy gems and/or jewels. Jewelers will be near the gem mines.

For the city center, the W block will be built around the mansion and will use Osiris's temple complex (which will extend to the south). The palace and festival square will be to the northeast of the W block, across the street from a couple of stately manors and fancy residences. All gold cart pushers will travel through the festival square (the first time I've done that), along with some other people.

Initial Construction

In my previous cities, I've designed the final city and then decided how to build it. That can't be done in Heh, since significant information is hidden. Also, starting up either gold or gems and jewelry (including controlling the hyenas) is so expensive that the funds are barely enough. Therefore, some of the design will focus on efficiently starting money-making industries, even if that results in a few extra buildings in the final city.

The first industry will be gold, since it needs fewer employees and is cheaper to expand. The tentative plan is to complete the gold mines, start making troops and warships, and then begin the gem and jewel industries.

Near the beginning of the mission, all of the gold mines and the palace (as well as many of the gem mines, jewelers, and docks and their storage yards) will obtain labor access from the W block. This will minimize the number of roads and firehouses early in the mission. (Later, a few of those buildings may get labor access from the N block.)

Hyenas

I want to prevent the western hyenas from doing much damage, and am considering two ways.

One way is to build a tower fairly close to the hyena breeding grounds as quickly as possible. I expect that all of those hyenas would eventually be killed. This is the most straightforward approach, but it's expensive: 958 Db for the tower and recruiter, plus some extra roads and (probably fairly soon) a firehouse.

The other way is to "fence" each hyena (with small statues) when it is on buildable ground. Later, a couple of archer forts would kill the hyenas. This method is cheaper: even if each hyena requires 4 statues, the cost would be 504 Db, and it should be considerably less. I'd expect that the savings would speed up development by over 2 months.

I haven't decided which way I prefer. The delayed fencing method saves money. The tower method is more aesthetic, since there aren't a bunch of extraneous small statues.

Does anyone have a preference?

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 09-07-2018 @ 05:55 AM).]

maydayp
Pleb
posted 09-06-18 16:35 ET (US)     3 / 16       
since there is no rescue grant, would you reconsider you stance on personal income, since its essentially a no-interest savings account in the game.

I prefer the archers myself. but I haven't tried the walls and tower approach myself
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 09-07-18 05:48 ET (US)     4 / 16       
since there is no rescue grant, would you reconsider you stance on personal income, since its essentially a no-interest savings account in the game
No. Not using personal funds is a rule I have always used in Pharaoh (except maybe in a contest). If I wanted to make the beginning of the mission easier, I would go into debt, but I think I can get by without it.
evil_live_vile
Pleb
posted 09-08-18 18:04 ET (US)     5 / 16       
Ascetically, I like the tower much more. Unless you can make something from the statues later on, they'll look obvious and out of place, especially when you get the archers to come in and kill them.

I also like the idea of you doing a non-spoiler play which also isn't completely planable from the get go. That of itself is a different take on the map; compared with our usual style at least of planning the completed city in detail, then making only small changes and adjustments as needed.

Eagles may soar, but weasels do not get sucked into jet engines
Two Eskimos sitting in a kayak were chilly, so they lit a fire in the craft. Unsurprisingly it sank, Proving once again that you can't have your kayak and heat it too
evil_live_vile
Pleb
posted 09-09-18 03:30 ET (US)     6 / 16       
Also, while I think the culmination of the personal goals will make the mission more difficult than a standard, objective-only play, I never really think of your "city-centre" builds as being a concept to base my entire city around.

Especially when, in a non-spoiler way, Heh seems fairly straightforward. There are no extreme ratings which much be met (like 70+ Culture), the landscape isn't too awkwardly divided by rocks/islands/large monuments, and there is enough land and coastline for a full army.

I usually want a more tangible objective like a high population, or scribe/worker ratio or fast time. Or off the wall like all food must be imported or only export raw materials. It could be something relevant to Heh's specific map design like all the population on the eastern bank (apart from labour access to the ferry). Now I dont know how viable any of these are but it's what I look at during my initial, very very first stages of planning.

I think your cities usually look good anyway and the city centre concept is fun to watch. But it's just my play style to want something tangible, like your personal goals, then see how pretty I can make it look afterwards.

Eagles may soar, but weasels do not get sucked into jet engines
Two Eskimos sitting in a kayak were chilly, so they lit a fire in the craft. Unsurprisingly it sank, Proving once again that you can't have your kayak and heat it too
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 09-09-18 05:51 ET (US)     7 / 16       
evil_live_vile,
Thanks for the comments. I was hoping to hear from you.
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 09-15-18 11:32 ET (US)     8 / 16       
Any more opinions on handling the hyenas?

Food

Everyone will eat chickpeas and pomegranates.

The floodplain on the west bank will be farmed: 10 farms (with 2 work camps) on the larger floodplain and 5 farms (with 1 work camp) on the smaller floodplain. (The floodplain on the east bank will not be farmed.)

The central meadow on each bank will be farmed. (The southern meadow on the west bank will not be farmed.) The design has 13 meadow farms on the west bank, although some may not be built. There may be space for a few more on the east bank, since (beside the farms) it has only the E block and some military. I will try to put meadow farms on more fertile locations, especially pomegranate farms (which harvest twice/year).

I'm considering growing pomegranates only on meadows, with only a few storage yards. Chickpeas would have more storage yards, to keep some extra in case there are a series of terrible floods.

As the population rises, people need food to keep city health acceptable. Some houses are close enough to desirable buildings that they will evolve to cottages when they get good water and food and religion, but cottages have high fire risk. Therefore, houses will not get religion until pottery is available, so there may be a lot of meager shanties for a while.

Mausoleum

The mausoleum will be west of the S block, not too far from the 3 work camps. The stonemason guild will be fairly close. The carpenter guild may be farther away, since it is used for only a few operations in the middle of the construction.

The mausoleum requires 496 blocks of sandstone. I would like to finish the mission in less than 20 years, but that depends on how fast sandstone can be imported. We'll see.

Housing Blocks

The W block is designed, with 5 stately manors and 12 fancy residences. The block uses bandstands instead of pavilions, so the senet house will probably be built earlier than usual. Even if only 15 linen/year and only 25 papyrus/year can be imported (so the houses in other blocks are spacious residences and there are no other mortuaries or libraries), that is enough for Prosperity 100 and Culture 55. The W block can supply labor access to the shipwright, but not to any wharves.

The S block is designed. If plenty of linen is available, it will have 24 fancy residences. If linen is in short supply, it will have 26 spacious residences, with houses replacing a bazaar and a temple. The S block supplies labor access to 2 warship and 1 transport wharves.

I haven't designed the other two housing blocks. Details of the N block, including its location, depend on the newly available goods. The E block will not be built until the eastern hyenas are killed.
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 09-16-18 15:32 ET (US)     9 / 16       
A tower will try to kill the western hyenas, as liked by evil_live_vile. After all, a city center is for aesthetics, and so is avoiding extraneous statues.


I will build Heh with Cleopatra. (I expect to do the same in all my new Pharaoh cities, since almost all players have Cleopatra, labor access works properly in a granary, and ships leave at the river exit point.)
evil_live_vile
Pleb
posted 09-17-18 05:27 ET (US)     10 / 16       
Is the west block going to be north or south of the meadow? I assume north because it would put the city centre closer to the gold mines.
Details of the N block, including its location, depend on the newly available goods.
I think the north block would be more important than all the others, so I'd lock that design in first. It might be supplying your gold/gems with labour access, and will supply your dock and significant part of your warships. It should definitely be in your first 2 housing blocks being set because of how important a dock area that can be quickly set up is. Even if you aren't exporting by water immediately, you might need to quickly import something - copper, wood, raw material for a request.

(I'm not even checking the map to see if copper or wood is sold via water. If I load it up, I might see or remember something and want to make sure there is no hint of a spoiler in the discussion)

Plus it's always an easy industry centre to make near the docks (I'm not just saying visually but in a practical game sense). When an unexpected request happens, it's safer long-term to set up production quickly and on the fly (well, still meticulously planned ) when you've got that advantage of naturally having several SYs and traders nearby. Just in case you overlooked something while trying to transport goods across the whole map (I'm assuming that, if water entry is in the north, so is the land entry).

Eagles may soar, but weasels do not get sucked into jet engines
Two Eskimos sitting in a kayak were chilly, so they lit a fire in the craft. Unsurprisingly it sank, Proving once again that you can't have your kayak and heat it too
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 09-17-18 11:24 ET (US)     11 / 16       
Is the west block going to be north or south of the meadow?
North.
I think the north block would be more important than all the others, so I'd lock that design in first. It might be supplying your gold/gems with labour access, and will supply your dock and significant part of your warships.
All of the gold mines and most of the gem mines will initially get labor access from the W block. In the final city, a gold mine and at least one gem mine will probably get labor access from the N block.

The docks will initially get labor access from the W block, and may continue to do so in the final city. The north block will give labor access to 1 warship and 1 transport wharves. The south block will give labor access to 2 warship and 1 transport wharves, so it will be the second block developed.

I don't know how many potters, weavers, papyrus makers, and additional storage yards will be needed. I'd rather find those things out before figuring out where to put the N block.
Cfilorvy666
Pleb
posted 09-18-18 03:58 ET (US)     12 / 16       
Any more opinions on handling the hyenas?
This was a big problem when I played Heh. I tried a few different approaches, including statues, gardens, police officers and towers, and found that towers was the best solution for me.

I planned very little in my Heh and I will probably build it again some day.
Looking forward to see you final city.
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 09-19-18 18:35 ET (US)     13 / 16       
Heh begins (at Very Hard difficulty) with 0 people, 4125 Db, Cu 0, Pr 0, and Ki 40.

1st Year (1710 BC)

Jan: 21 vacant lots were placed in the W block. The recruiter, first tower, and first 2 gold mines were built.

Feb: The palace was built.

Mar: The tower guard killed some hyenas. Gold was delivered to the palace. The first architect post and first 2 firehouses were built.

May: The 3rd gold mine was built.

Jul: 8 more vacant lots were placed in the W block. The 4th gold mine was built.

Aug: 5 more vacant lots were placed in the W block. At month-end, the price of gems fell 2 Db.

Sep: The last western hyena was killed. The 5th gold mine was built.

Oct: The 6th gold mine was built.

Nov: 9 more vacant lots were placed in the W block.

Dec: The 7th (last) gold mine and 2nd architect post were built.

The 1st year ended with 215 people (all in crude huts), 283 Db, Cu 0, Pr 0, and Ki 39.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 09-23-2018 @ 01:41 PM).]

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 09-23-18 20:49 ET (US)     14 / 16       
My tentative plan is to have 3 infantry and 3 archer forts: 2 on the east bank and 4 on the west bank.

2nd Year (1709 BC)

Feb: The academy and W block water supply were built.

May: The first archer fort was built.

Jul: 1 vacant lot was placed in the S block. The first storage yard was built. The trade route to Dakhla Oasis was opened.

Aug: The first wood was bought from a Dakhla Oasis caravan. At month-end, Men-nefer requested waterborne forces against a small enemy within 5 months.

Sep: The shipwright, first warship wharf, and first work camp were built.

Oct: 5 more vacant lots were placed in the S block. The first 5 floodplain chickpea farms (all irrigated) and the 3rd and 4th firehouses were built. The warship was dispatched to Men-nefer.

Nov: 4 more vacant lots were placed in the W block. The first plaza and first garden were built.

Dec: The mansion was built and salary was set to 0.

The 2nd year ended with 351 people (301 in sturdy huts, 50 in crude huts), 295 Db, Cu 0, Pr 1, and Ki 40.
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 09-27-18 21:02 ET (US)     15 / 16       
The granary that will eventually supply food to the W block gets labor access from the N block (which won't be built for a while). Therefore, for now, the W block bazaar must get food from a granary near the S block, which is considerably farther away.

3rd year (1708 BC)

Jan: 11 more vacant lots were placed in the S block. The first gem mine and first jeweler were built. At month-end, the price of wood fell by 10 Db.

Mar: The S block water supply, 2nd gem mine, 2nd jeweler, and 3rd and 4th architect posts were built.

May: The first granary (near the S block), W block and S block courthouses, W block bazaar, and 5th architect post were built.

Jul: The 2nd archer fort was built. The first jewelry was sold to a Dakhla Oasis caravan.

Aug: At month-end, the warship returned with slight damage, and Ki rose 2 because of the victory at Men-nefer.

Oct: The first 3 Osiris shrines, first 2 Seth shrines, first 2 Ra shrines, 3rd jeweler, and 6th through 10th floodplain chickpea farms (all irrigated) were built. The warship was sent in for repair.

Dec: 12 more vacant lots were placed in the W block. The 2nd warship wharf and 5th firehouse were built. At month-end, Itjtawy requested waterborne forces against a small enemy within 5 months.

The 3rd year ended with 488 people (180 in meager shanties, 308 in sturdy huts), 373 Db, Cu 5, Pr 7, and Ki 43.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 10-04-2018 @ 05:36 PM).]

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 10-04-18 18:07 ET (US)     16 / 16       
The design has 17 meadow farms on the east bank, although some may not be built. Part of the E block is designed, enough to supply labor access to those farms, a ferry terminal, and 3 warship and 2 transport wharves.

4th year (1707 BC)

Jan: The 3rd gem mine and first transport wharf were built.

Apr: An archer company was transported across the Nile to kill the east bank wolves. The 4th gem mine, 4th jeweler, and ferry crossing were built. Both warships were dispatched to Itjtawy.

May: 12 vacant lots were placed in the E block. The other archer company was transported across the Nile, but was too late: all wolves were dead, without losses. Both archer companies began going back to their forts. The first S block bazaar was built. At month-end, Menat Khufu requested waterborne forces against a small enemy within 5 months and a trade route to Men-nefer became available.

Jun: The 3rd and 4th warship wharves and 4th Osiris shrine were built.

Aug: The E block water supply, 6th firehouse, 6th architect post, and first dock were built. The trade route to Men-nefer was opened (so chickpeas could be obtained by bazaar buyers from a storage yard). The new warships were dispatched to Menat Khufu.

Oct: The first large statue, W block and S block tax collectors, 7th firehouse, and both weaponsmiths were built. The tax rate was set to 14%. The wage rate was set to 32. The trade route to Byblos was opened.

Nov: The first gems were sold to a Byblos ship. The first copper was bought from a Byblos ship.

Dec: 12 more vacant lots were placed in the S block. 4 more vacant lots were placed in the E block. At month-end, the 2 warships returned from Itjtawy with moderate damage to 1, and Ki rose 2 because of the victory at Itjtawy.

The 4th year ended with 768 people (684 in meager shanties, 84 in sturdy huts), 482 Db, Cu 5, Pr 14, and Ki 46.
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