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Pharaoh: Game Help
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Caesar IV Heaven » Forums » Pharaoh: Game Help » How much a trade partner will buy per year?
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Topic Subject:How much a trade partner will buy per year?
PharaohManana
Pleb
posted 06-21-18 04:24 ET (US)         
Hi everyone, I've been reading the forum for a while and I play the game since the early 00s, but this is the first time I'm posting a question.

On Grumpus's site there's a line regarding city strategy:

"Dunqul Oasis - is a land route and will buy 2500 pottery. Cost to open - 500 debens."

This is to make a decision on what to export.

So how does Grumpus know the exact number of pottery per year that Dunqul Oasis would buy? I can only see one-two-three markers near each trade good on map.
AuthorReplies:
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 06-21-18 06:23 ET (US)     1 / 10       
Hi PharaohManana, welcome to Pharaoh Heaven.
how does Grumpus know the exact number of pottery per year that Dunqul Oasis would buy? I can only see one-two-three markers near each trade good on map.
One marker means an annual trade quota of 15 "normal" loads, two markers means an annual trade quota of 25 "normal" loads, and three markers means an annual trade quota of 40 "normal" loads. A normal load is 100 of most goods, but is 1 stone, 1 weapon, or 1 chariot.

Dunqul Oasis would have 2 markers for buying pottery.
PharaohManana
Pleb
posted 06-21-18 10:50 ET (US)     2 / 10       
Wow, thanks a lot. I'm glad to finally have known how these numbers is being calculated. I wonder which game manual deciphers the trade goods markers into the exact annual trade quotas.

N.B.

Dear Brugle, I've been studying you cities from downloads and I'm impressed by your using a map space. Do you draw city plans before the game in some editor?
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 06-21-18 16:38 ET (US)     3 / 10       
Do you draw city plans before the game in some editor?
I use temporary game files to store the design. Sometimes I put the whole city in one file (using cheats to get enough money) and sometimes I break it up into several pieces. There is often a lot of deleting and rebuilding. If I've gone a few months into the mission, I start the design (or that part of the design) over, so I don't learn any spoilers. (A library can't be built in the design, since it takes 500 papyrus.)

I did use an editor once, in my last C3 city (1 Granary Damascus). I also stored the design in a temporary game file, to get a better idea of how the city would look.
PharaohManana
Pleb
posted 06-24-18 07:04 ET (US)     4 / 10       
Thank you for the explanation. Now I'm trying to pre-design my cities using the game itself and some temp files. Previously I draw city layouts in a graphic program using the cheat sheets (in excel), it wasn't fun 'cause so much time was spent outside of the game.

Do you also place houses in your pre-designs or just industry and roads?
Henipatra
Pleb
posted 06-24-18 09:25 ET (US)     5 / 10       
I always design my cities one neighborhood at a time -- I start in one area, put everything there which will be eventually needed (not just those items needed at the beginning), and take screen shots.

(In some cases, things cannot be build right away -- like Tax Collectors when I don't have a Palace yet. Then I just use a proxy like Work Camps instead. I also use proxies like Gardens for housing or the Temple Complex, and so on.)

When I'm happy with what I've done, I start the game over, get all my initial funds back, and plan a new district.

I also use my Map Tool, which converts text files into graphic maps -- it's like the Glyphy tool, but with many more features. (I send you a copy if you want it.)

Henipatra
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 06-24-18 11:23 ET (US)     6 / 10       
Do you also place houses in your pre-designs or just industry and roads?
I place everything, except sometimes forts and aesthetic beautification. For housing, I generally place vacant lots only in the N and/or S tiles of the eventual houses, which makes it easier to keep track of them.

Like Henipatra, I sometimes use proxies. Usually there are only proxies for libraries (3x3 gardens), but there may be something that won't be available until a new trade route is opened. For example, I may be sure that linen will eventually be available (perhaps from flax), and since I generally don't use "future history", I will include weavers in the design even though they may not be needed.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 06-24-2018 @ 11:24 AM).]

evil_live_vile
Pleb
posted 06-25-18 03:36 ET (US)     7 / 10       
I like Excel spreadsheets. I use the Djedi Desirability Calculator's glyphs, overlayed on Nero Would's maps. The desirability calculator can bug out on modern versions of Excel but the glyphs are nice looking and simple enough.

I've tried drawing on graph paper but there is too much crossing out and redrawing. And I dont like blank saves because when I play the map proper, that'd involve too much saving and loading going back to my test maps trying to remember what the layout was. I would be going back and forth 2 or 3 times just trying to make sure a left turn in a dock area isn't 1 tile too long or too short.

With 2 monitors, I can pre-plan using the Excel spreadsheets and have them open at the same time I test various designs or while playing the game proper.

But as with anything in this game, the most important thing is to play around and find out what suits you best.

Eagles may soar, but weasels do not get sucked into jet engines
Two Eskimos sitting in a kayak were chilly, so they lit a fire in the craft. Unsurprisingly it sank, Proving once again that you can't have your kayak and heat it too
PharaohManana
Pleb
posted 06-26-18 13:35 ET (US)     8 / 10       
Thanks you all for your explanations. It's one of the most intriguing themes. I wish there was a special topic on the forum.

I like Henipatra's screenshot approach though it'd be difficult not to miscount some tiles. And the screen resolution only allows to show one of maybe 8 landscape portions to be shot at one time.

I also tried to make tmp files like Brugle described but I'm
forgetting how it was in previous file as soon as I switch to the working version. Just like evil_live_vile described.
Two monitors with the pre-planned version always in sight would be perfect!

So it's even more amazing what cities some of you manage to create without external drawings, etc. Maybe to play in this manner takes some talent and general smartness I lack The problem is I can no longer be happy with my chaotic badly planned settlements (you wouldn't call'em cities) since I first discovered a housing block concept and then observed some masterpiece works of other gamers. The only solution is to learn.

Here's some dumb question:
do you place your industrial areas first and then attach housing to provide labor or otherwise? (I mean in pre-planning, not in actual game.)

Do you always calculate the number of houses and other structures your city is going to need or does there finally come some "play by ear" skill as a result of practice and experience?
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 06-26-18 15:07 ET (US)     9 / 10       
do you place your industrial areas first and then attach housing to provide labor or otherwise? (I mean in pre-planning, not in actual game.)
Some missions are easy to design. Place some crucial buildings first, such as industries around a rare resource. Decide where the dock (and industries based on water-imported raw materials) will be. Put in housing blocks for labor access. Other industries (and perhaps another housing block or two) can go anywhere they fit. Defend everything.

Other designs aren't so simple, as there are multiple important goals that interfere with each other. I may try quite a few designs before finding one that seems to work. Maybe not all of my goals can be satisfied.
Do you always calculate the number of houses and other structures your city is going to need
Nowadays I typically do this. But I am rather at an extreme for planning. I admire players who produce good-looking well-functioning cities with much less planning.
aCtivPrime
Pleb
posted 06-26-18 19:24 ET (US)     10 / 10       
PharaohManana,

In my opinion, pre-designing your cities will certainly make your Pharaoh experience easier and perhaps more pleasurable, but it's not the end of the world if you don't. I never use any pre-design tools for my cities, I enjoy building them by ear, as you said. They may be chaotic or inefficient, but I am very fond of them.

However, it's important for me to have a vision for my city from the beginning, to have an idea of how my city should be structured and how it would stand out from the last one I built. For example, the idea of Kyrene was simple: industries on the inside, houses on the outside, make the city as pretty as possible. The rest I figured out in the process.

Sometimes I would save the game before building a housing area. If I didn't like the result, I would simply go back and try again. Sometimes I would delete completed monuments and place them a few squares away, because they wouldn't fit the image of the city that I have in my head anymore. Pre-designing cities limits you to the plans you already made. Building them by ear gives you more freedom.
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