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Pharaoh: Game Help
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Caesar IV Heaven » Forums » Pharaoh: Game Help » "Accepting" storage yards deliver to each other?
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Topic Subject:"Accepting" storage yards deliver to each other?
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 09-08-00 06:38 ET (US)         
I'm pretty sure I've seen this mentioned before, but I couldn't find the thread.

While building On, I had 3 connected storage yards that "accepted" flax, 1 SY on the northwest island (near some weavers), and 2 SYs on the northeast island (so unconnected "getting" SYs on the mainland wouldn't have to go too far). The SY on the northwest island was supposed to keep the nearby weavers supplied, but much of the time its cart pusher delivered flax to one of the distant SYs (and vice versa). This could have been a serious problem, but fortunately deliveries from flax farms (and the other 2 SYs) helped keep the weavers in operation, and there was some excess weaver capacity.

When will an "accepting" SY deliver to another "accepting" SY? Typically, when I build multiple SYs that contain a material that must be delivered for a city to work properly (such as raw material to a workshop), the SYs are very close together. If close SYs were sometimes delivering to each other, I might not have noticed it.

AuthorReplies:
Plebus
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 09-08-00 07:51 ET (US)     1 / 9       
Brugle,you've finally set on your feet on On!(I haven't yet).

I remember there were discussions in C3 forum(long long ago) about cartpushers exchanging goods,and had noticed it once,but I have never seen it in Pharoah.Are the weavers surpposed to be supplied by these two SYs connected by road(ferry)?If they are connected,then I guess some conflicting delivering orders caused this strange behavier(as two weavers running out of flax at the same time).

I noticed another frustrating phenomenon when I was playing north Dashur:I found a grain farm cartpusher stucked at a disconnected limestone SY(accept limestone only,near the pyramid) for years,and I couldn't see any reason why he was there(no road connection from farms to it).The other time(I'd run the final years several times),the stucked cartpusher was from bailey farm and again no way no orders for him to reach there.

Tomek
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 09-08-00 07:57 ET (US)     2 / 9       
Welcome to the club , Plebus !

Brugle :
Can it be that the SY is accepting , let's say 1/4 , has 800 already and its pusher has another 100 in his cart ? Than it is not a bug . Otherwise , no idea .

Nero Would
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 09-08-00 08:18 ET (US)     3 / 9       
I know I've seen this problem reported before (maybe more than once), but I can't find the thread(s) either. People refer to it as two accepting storage yards passing the same goods back and forth between them. I don't remember seeing any resolution though. I also haven't seen the problem myself, but I rarely have connected storage yards accepting the same goods.
Erik
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 09-08-00 10:14 ET (US)     4 / 9       
My explanation to this phenomenon (which I have never confirmed with any closer experiments) is that when a workshop runs out of raw materials all storage yards that has unoccupied delivery men (and the materials in question) will attempt to refill the workshop. The deliverymen that arrive after the workshop has been completely filled will take the goods back to the nearest accepting storage yard, which might, or might not, be the one they came from.

/Erik

Vriesea
Pleb
posted 09-08-00 14:59 ET (US)     5 / 9       
I think Erik hit it on the head.

I too have also witnessed storage yard cart pushers walking a long distance to supply an industry only to find it completely filled in the meantime. The cart pusher will then return its goods to the nearest acceptable storage yard.

Can't remember if it then returns to it's original storage yard or disappears?

Vriesea

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 09-08-00 17:34 ET (US)     6 / 9       
I just watched this again. 3 weavers had 100 flax and the nearby SY had 3200 flax. The nearby SY's cart pusher returned (empty) from a delivery to a distant SY, emerged (with 100 flax) after a few moments, and began to deliver to a distant SY (again) after a few more moments (even though the 3 weavers still needed flax). Then I deleted the flax farms and eventually (after the flax farm cart pushers had left the streets but the SYs still had lots of flax) the strange behavior stopped.

I have an explanation: an SY will load up the cart if any building needs a delivery, but will not deliver it if something else (such as a flax farm cart pusher) has already been assigned. If no building that needs a delivery is available, the SY's cart pusher delivers the goods to another SY.

To explain multiple deliveries (of beer, for example), another building's (brewery's) cart pusher will deliver to a building (senet house) even if an SY's cart pusher has already been assigned. This requires that the SY start its delivery before the other building, which is the usual case--an SY may start a delivery as soon as a senet house needs beer, but the brewery won't start until the current batch is finished.

Plebus
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 09-08-00 18:05 ET (US)     7 / 9       
About delivery,more often I saw SY cartpusher stuck at his door with 100 units in his cart when another delivery man had made it first(and not relieved until another shop need that material),maybe the distance was not far enough?Or the ferry makes the difference?
Seneca
Pleb
posted 09-09-00 05:58 ET (US)     8 / 9       
I've seen this problem a few times before, so I may add some information. Unfortunately I don't have a specific scenario at hand, so I have to rely on my memory.

I usually get this with an industrial block which has two SYs at the entrance for raw materials just opposite the street. When raw materials are imported, I usually set the advisor to 1600, the SYs to accept 800 each. This helps coping with the tides of incoming caravans.

I still don't know what triggers the loop. Maybe Eriks idea of assigning both cartpushers to the same workshop, one of them staying behind, starts it. But after it is started, I see this: SY1 delivers to workshop, SY2 delivers to SY1. Since this is only a 3 tiles trip, cartpusher(CP) 2 is back soon, takes another 100 and waits outside. CP1 comes back, takes 100 and starts to next workshop. CP2 starts to SY1 and so on. Since this halves your capacity, this usually let your workshops fall dry after some time. Note that the loop doesn't end when 2 workshops are able to get 100 material! So it's a bug, not a feature.

I'm not sure what breaks the loop (my memory fades on this), if it's 1-2 workshops falling completely dry - which gives them higher priority - or SY2 is completely empty. But after the loop ended, both CPs work fine until the loop is triggered again.

Plebus, you're right on this: There's a delay between a SY CP loading his cart and starting to the workshop. If during this delay any raw materials source has 100%, its CP has priority, and SY CP has to wait outside. If the latter already started walking, he will deliver, and the other one has to wait or go for the SY.

As I said, this happens to me with imported goods. If I'm producing them myself, this will never happen. I never allow clay to be delivered into a SY, max. 800 of farm goods in 1 SY to get the carts off the floadplains. It is much more effective to let them deliver directly to the workshops. So in these cases the loop isn't possible, which means it's not a problem with the farms.

The loop is especially annoying if I'm importing 2 raw materials and use both SYs for them (800 each). Usually this arrangement is much more efficient than assigning only 1 type to each SY. But if the loop occures, both industries will fall dry, so it becomes a serious problem.

Just my 2cts,

Baltic
Pleb
posted 09-11-00 02:51 ET (US)     9 / 9       
I chime in with Seneca. It doesn't happen often, but I have observed two nearby storage yards exchanging raw material two or three times during career, and it was just like Seneca says. Both SY cartpushers seemed to have no other occupation than delivering to the other SY . Quite irritating. I solved the problem by setting one of the SY to Not accepting.

Plebus - me, too! The barley farm delivery man at inaccessible monument area (near limestone) in Dahshur is probably a feature of this mission . I wonder how they scripted it ... it isn't possible with Map editor.

Cherub Baltic

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