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Pharaoh: Game Help
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Caesar IV Heaven » Forums » Pharaoh: Game Help » population troubles aren't entertaining...
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Topic Subject:population troubles aren't entertaining...
Spemb
Pleb
posted 09-07-00 04:41 ET (US)         
can anybody help?
a common problem i'm encountering is being badly underpopulated but fixing this seems to be almost impossible - the math just doesn't seem to add up with regards to people coming in vs. employees needed vs. available housing etc...
i seem to always end up down by about 200 people if i'm LUCKY, but building a new housing block doesn't seem to make any difference except to raise the population but not actually dent the employees needed. I know that building a housing block does involve building more employee needing services but not nearly as many as the block can hold - especially when you build the block in stages, not adding things until they are asked for.
Does evolving housing too far have the capability to screw things up seeing as scribes don't work - i've been trying to keep different blocks at varying levels to see the effect.
Should i delete any guilds if monuments are completed or do they serve another purpose and how does temporarily shutting down industry affect population?
Does a senet house have to be attached to a housing block to pass on it's effects? If so i'm gonna be needing a lot of senet houses despite each of them supposedly covering 5000 people

UNRELATED QUESTION...
i'm assuming cleopatra patches pharoah, but does it also contain the enhancement pack - i tried to install the enhancement pack after cleopatra but it didn't work.

Thanks for your help and for a GREAT SITE, it's served me well many times before and i'm sure it will again...

sayonara...

AuthorReplies:
Baltic
Pleb
posted 09-07-00 05:22 ET (US)     1 / 8       
Hi, Spemb!
Cleopatra includes the Enhancement Pack (which is in fact the same as patch ).

If you have problems with too few people willing to work, it may be caused by aging population. Old people don't work, and if there are too many old people, your city lacks employees. There are several posts about how to overcome this problem - solutions reach from slow and continual development of the city to deleting and rebuilding part of a city or intentional low medical coverage (causing epidemy of disease or malaria) or shutting off water for some blocks, to cause them devolve. After the people leave, you restore the water access. New immigrants that come to the city are young people, so you have enough workforce.

You can delete all guilds once the monuments are complete. They are not needed for maintenance or other tasks. You can also delete lots of other buildings (storage yards, workcamps, quarrys or brickworks) that were necessary to build the monument. This helps at least for some time.

If you switch some industry off, it helps in the way that other buildings have more workforce available. Buildings that are switched OFF don't use any workers, and don't produce anything. Production can be restarted any time, there are no limits to how long the facility can be OFF.

Evolving housing to high (scribe) level is very demanding on workforce, and you shouldn't do it unless you have lots of unemployed people. It is vital that you control how many and which houses will evolve and which will stay at residence level - but it is quite easy. Just block the expansion to 3x3 with a statue, and the building will stay at Fancy residence and supply workers.

I'm not sure how do you mean the Senet house question. Senet house needs employees to function, so it has to be somehow connected to the housing. The effect of Senet house on culture and entertainment bonus is independent on whether it gets beer or not, only has to have employees. The only houses that really require access to senet house are the higher scribal levels. Other housing will do with just juggler, dancer and musician.

Cherub Baltic

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 09-07-00 13:00 ET (US)     2 / 8       
Hello Spemb, welcome to Pharaoh Heaven.

I have just one thing to add to Baltic's excellent advice. A small housing block will use a lot of its workers to staff the service buildings that it needs. A larger housing block, with the same service buildings, will have a higher fraction of "excess" workers. So, if worker shortages are a problem, it pays to build blocks with a more houses per set of service buildings. (A larger block will need more food production and may need extra buildings for Culture, but should still be more "efficient".)

tentdweller
Pleb
posted 09-07-00 13:25 ET (US)     3 / 8       
hmmm, I think what he means is that are senet houses like physicians, ie to get perfect coverage every house has to have walker coverage. What mission are senet houses first available because I really want to get a palatial estate, and I now have everything else? I'm on North Dahshur by the way...
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 09-07-00 13:40 ET (US)     4 / 8       
Hi tentdweller,
City-wide senet coverage is like other entertainment (and education) coverage--the houses passed by the senet players don't matter, only the number of senet houses relative to the population. I don't know when in the family history palatial estates first become possible. Senet houses are first available in On and Iunet, but palaces can't be built in On because a second luxury good isn't available. In Iunet (which I haven't played yet), some necessary goods aren't available at the beginning, but a trade route might open later.
TrevorHall
Pleb
posted 09-07-00 20:26 ET (US)     5 / 8       
On the subjects of senet houses, and getting many people in a block:

You can make use of a juggler and a senet house, to get plenty of entertainment to a block, using the walkers from the two buildings.

This trick allows you to make a simple oblong housing block, with an inside area of 18x6 sqaures (or less), in which you have a juggler on one corner, a senet house in the middle of one long edge, and the other housing filling the other edge, and possibbly the sides.

Put temples Court house etc. on the inside of the block near the houses (popular buildings). You need 2 bazaars for such a block, for all the housing. Put police and fire near the senet house (less popular buildings)

So: you can get many worker houses in a single big block. As suggested below, put statues behind the houses, so that they cannot grow 3 back from the raod.

Of couse, you need to connect a road away for supplies. This road must end in a road block where it joins your oblong.



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Spemb
Pleb
posted 09-08-00 01:19 ET (US)     6 / 8       
thanks all,

tentdweller got it on the head regarding the senet house question, now i'm thinking that the senet house's effect on culture rating and it's effect on entertainment via walker access are completely unrelated.

But the population problem still remains, it's like i get caught in some kind of bermuda triangle - people come in (and the problem has never been attracting people - there's generally a steady stream of them arriving) but never seem to fill those vacancies (and i'm not adding many extra services either).

So the addition of the humble scribal school to a block is a mission fraught with danger apparently. Does this still apply if you don't let the house evolve by removing a statue and keeping it at 2x2?

Perhaps i'm just too preoccupied with evolving housing, the current mission is finished and i'm just building up the city for the sake of it - which leads me to ask, IF you are planning to evolve all the way up, should i be importing most of my needs? (prosperity isn't a problem)

thanks again,

spemb.

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 09-08-00 01:45 ET (US)     7 / 8       
Spemb,

Immigrants should be filling vacancies. If they're not, the first order of business is figuring out why. Check the number of residents in several houses that immigrants are approaching at various times and see what's going on. One possible problem is houses devolving and reevolving--this would be indicated by some emigrants leaving the city.

A scribal school allows residences to form. In general, residences are good--since they're always 2x2, they stock more goods than 1x1 houses and are therefore more stable.

Manors require (among other things) luxury goods and more space (3x3). So if you don't want manors, either tell bazaars to not buy luxury goods or put something solid (such as a small statue) behind any residence that might expand into a manor.

As to importing stuff for high-level houses, sometimes it makes sense and sometimes it doesn't.

ToutEnCarton
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 09-08-00 05:27 ET (US)     8 / 8       
Another suggestion about your population problem: Check the overseer (can't remember which one, overseer of granaries maybe) who tells you how many vacancies you have in your city and start building a new block before it gets too low (<100). If that number doesn't decrease through out time it's bacause you've got a devolution problem in one of your block as Brugle suggested: avoid uncontrolled devolution at all costs.

About ageing population, among new comers, 40% of them are willing to work but that percentage can go down to around 20% when your people are getting older: look out the forum to see how to deal with the problem. In my opinion, labour shortage is worse than high unemployement, so keep a close eye on the problem and work on it before it gets out of hand: look out for devolving blocks, reduce the number of scribal houses, rejuvenate your population and finally build more houses.

Best of luck!

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