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Caesar III: Game Help
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Caesar IV Heaven » Forums » Caesar III: Game Help » Peace in Very Hard
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Topic Subject:Peace in Very Hard
rFontana
Pleb
posted 11-10-11 20:35 ET (US)         
Hi guys!
I wanna know if there is a way to get 2 peace in the first year in very hard or there will always be a rioter spawned when the mood changes to disgrunted between 200-300 pop.
AuthorReplies:
Trium
Pleb
posted 11-11-11 02:37 ET (US)     1 / 11       
I'm fairly sure that the only way to avoid the protester is to avoid the sentiment drop at 200 pop. This is difficult to achieve, requiring careful timing and tile-counting, but it can be done. The aim would be to provide initial housing for (say) 195 and wait until they are fully occupied. You then know that any further immigrants bound for new lots will be generated in pairs, one a family of five and one a single immigrant (though their arrival on the map might be somewhat staggered).

You then need to place at least 35 lots to attract 17 pairs of immigrant families plus one extra totalling 107. Pairs of immigrants will be generated every 50 game ticks (the game will pseudo-randomly delay their actual entry onto the map) so your aim should be to have them all arrive at their new homes at around the same time. Some experimentation may be required to determine just how far from the entry point each lot should be placed and just when is the right time to start placing them. Ideally, either a month roll-over or a month mid-point (this being when the sentiment level is reviewed) should have passed just before the first ones arrive, giving almost two weeks for the rest to move in before sentiment is calculated again.

It is also important that none of the immigrants arrive before all are generated, otherwise the resulting vacancies will probably mess up your plans. Merging is another potential spoiler - for a real challenge you might arrange for non-northern tents of mergeable formations to be settled first but I think I'd rather avoid possible merging altogether.

Not for the faint-hearted, nor the impatient, but a neat trick if you can pull it off

[This message has been edited by Trium (edited 11-11-2011 @ 02:48 AM).]

rFontana
Pleb
posted 11-11-11 03:25 ET (US)     2 / 11       
meh...
too much trouble for 1 peace... if I dont let the people riot in the following years it wont be missed... (:
tx Trium.
I was trying to time a festival in the days following the mood fall but it doesn't work.
so it would also work if I'd build a aquamaze and deleted it little by little as the immigrants enter the map so they can settle in that half month interval... but aqueducts are expensive...
the game already robbed me by 2k just because i'm playing on very hard. and I wont accept the rescue loan. And I have nothing left on the bank because I didnt take salary in tingis... (:
I'll live with only 1 peace in the first year...
Lutetia is being so easy... 4,5k so far, 2,5k GI 2k MI. stocking up oil. not sure yet if i will build 8-10 LP and make the rest live in GI or i'll leave this 4,5k in insulae and lay down 24 LP and a nice slum of 2-3k non-eaters in the south...
BTW... that 2k the game took away from me because of the very hard, I noticed it counts as expenses. Do you know if it affects the prosperity? or it counts as building expenses? :\

[This message has been edited by rfontana (edited 11-11-2011 @ 03:28 AM).]

Senseisan
Pleb
posted 11-11-11 04:35 ET (US)     3 / 11       
You can delete the maze whith one drag and set 2 lines of aquaduct cutting the path of immigrants , when they hit the aqua the whole pack is redirected and rush home .
The aqua's are counted in building expenses .
In peaceful maps , the first settlement of 195 guys can staff a little industry and export enough to earn the needed 2K Dr.

[This message has been edited by Senseisan (edited 11-11-2011 @ 04:38 AM).]

Trium
Pleb
posted 11-20-11 02:45 ET (US)     4 / 11       
rfontana - Since you brought it up again in another thread and it seems to be something of a mission for you to achieve this objective, I'll try and help you a little more. I have uploaded a zip file to accompany this discussion.

As previously stated, the objective is to have the population go from under 200 to over 300 within a two-week window which falls between sentiment reviews. Within the zip, you will find the file Atest1.sav, which shows the preliminary preparation of having 39 small tents fully occupied so that immigration has now stopped. We need a clock - you might use a farm or a workshop, but I have chosen to use an actor colony which generates an actor every week. I can tell exactly where I am within a week by counting how many tiles he has walked. A plaza tile approximately marks the point he will reach when the next actor is spawned.

In this case, when the actor (from the colony, not from the theatre) reaches the plaza tile the month rolls over. I know by testing that if I place vacant lots immediately on loading the save there will be time to generate 6 immigrants (as reported by the Population Advisor) before the month rolls over. Those will of course arrive on the map as two sprites bound for two vacant lots.

The next sentiment review after roll-over will be in the middle of April, which is too soon for us. We need 18 generation cycles (18*6=108) to get all the immigrants we need. If we place lots immediately, we will get one pair before the end of March, 16 pairs during April and one pair at the beginning of May, so our first opportunity to move them in comes after the mid-May review. So we need to have them all arrive at their new homes after mid-May (about 1250 ticks after generating the first pair) but before end-May (about 1650 ticks away). It's simply (!) a case of calculating how far into the map each pair of immigrants will have travelled by then.

There are a couple of complications. Firstly, although we can know exactly when each pair of immigrants will be generated (every 50 ticks, in the order lots are placed) as reported by the Population Advisor, we do not know exactly when those immigrants will appear on the map, since the game delays entry by a 'random' amount of time which depends on the location of the house they are heading for. However, this never exceeds 127 'ticks', so if we aim for arrival early in the target period, say 1300-1400 'ticks' away, we should avoid getting caught out by stragglers arriving late.

The second complication is that immigrants actually aim for a road tile and then enter the house from there. The house may be next to the road, or it may be two tiles away. The immigrant may pass the house and double back, or he may hit the road tile on the way in. This all affects how long it takes to arrive. We need to know what route an immigrant will take into the house, which means knowing which road tile is used to access the house. In fact it is the first road tile encountered when searching the tiles around the house in the following order: (north is left-up)

9 10 11 12 13
14 1 2 3 15
16 4 H 5 17
18 6 7 8 19
20 21 22 23 24

Now we can calulate that to arrive at the target time the first pair of immigrants needs to travel around 80 tiles, measured from the entry point to the house via the road access tile. The second pair, being generated 50 ticks later, will arrive at about the same time if they travel about three tiles less. So we place pairs of lots at 80, 77, 74, 70, 67, 64, 60, 57, 54, 50, 47, 44, 40, 37, 34, 30, 27 and 24 tile distances. If we require, we can afford a little flexibility.

Atest2.sav shows the lots in place (I accidentally placed a couple extra, and misplaced a couple more, but I got away with it). I've deliberately scattered them around a little so that you can follow the immigrants more easily. As can be seen, all required immigrants are in place well before the June rollover and not a protestor in sight.

If we'd wanted, we could have delayed placing the lots a little - just reduce the distances by 3.33 tiles for every 50 ticks delayed, but don't get too close to the entry point or 'second wave' immigrants might get generated before we've finished with the first wave.

[This message has been edited by Trium (edited 11-20-2011 @ 03:22 AM).]

rFontana
Pleb
posted 11-21-11 19:55 ET (US)     5 / 11       
wow
I'm testing it tomorrow
Would've tried it today but I spent the whole day playing skyrim.
vacation \o/
I'm sure with this data I'll be able to do it.
I could give you a manly kiss in the cheeks, but as such thing dont exist I'll just thank you.
(:
rFontana
Pleb
posted 05-02-19 15:50 ET (US)     6 / 11       
Here I am 7 and a half years later for another round of c3 and I finally managed to do this bloody thing...
Once you let it go for a while so your head stops hurting it's not really that difficult (after you did all the math yourself and handed it in a platter).
Easiest way I found was to set the new lots in the straightest line possible and just space them in the 3-3-4 pattern you showed. I even did for testing in Brundisium along the RtR. Not so much space needed. Hardest part is to time it right within the month
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 05-03-19 07:46 ET (US)     7 / 11       
Hi rfontana, it's great to see players return to C3.

Somewhat over a year ago, I also achieved Peace 2 in the first year at Very Hard twice: the first time accidentally (I intended to get the rise in population as quick as possible, but luckily it fit into a half-month interval) and the second time deliberately. Unfortunately, I got a protestor in a later year when I didn't expect one (as described in reply 12 of Trium's Sentiment (mood) - some numbers).
rFontana
Pleb
posted 05-03-19 11:49 ET (US)     8 / 11       
Nice to see you still active Brugle.
Calculating the spacing between lots is as far as I would go without getting mad and giving up.
But I only had to try 3 times until I got the timing right using some walker as a reference.
Trying to figure out a way to do it in Tarentum. I'm trying not to delete anything nor build anything that wont be used nor use the northern meadow. Don't know if there'll be enough space without improvising some kind of maze

Regarding your finding on leveling the houses on the first half of the month and it happening only to new tents. That means every new tent starts with the standard sentiment depending on the difficulty level right?

[This message has been edited by rfontana (edited 05-03-2019 @ 12:53 PM).]

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 05-04-19 13:59 ET (US)     9 / 11       
your finding on leveling the houses
I don't know what you mean by "leveling the houses".
That means every new tent starts with the standard sentiment depending on the difficulty level right?
Trium reported in "Sentiment (mood) - some numbers" that a newly placed vacant lot gets a sentiment number of 50, which (except at Very Hard difficulty) is increased at the first sentiment review (which would be either at the start or the middle of the month), and a newly settled tent gets the sentiment of the vacant lot. (This means that at Very Hard difficulty, a newly settled tent always has a settlement number of 50 whether or not the vacant lot had a settlement review.) As far as I know, that is correct. The problem I found occurred under some conditions at the next (mid-month) settlement review after the tent was settled and got food in the first half of the month. The solution is simple--have taxes somewhat lower to prevent settlement in the newly settled house from falling below 50 and generating a protestor.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 05-04-2019 @ 02:02 PM).]

rFontana
Pleb
posted 05-06-19 10:10 ET (US)     10 / 11       
I don't know what you mean by "leveling the houses"
I was referring to the tents that evolved in the first half of the month vs the ones that evolved in the second half. Should have used evolving or leveling up instead. My bad.
Btw, did you ever found out if it was indeed a bug?
The solution is simple--have taxes somewhat lower to prevent settlement in the newly settled house from falling below 50 and generating a protestor."
I had completely forgot that shacks payed taxes :P

[This message has been edited by rFontana (edited 05-06-2019 @ 10:12 AM).]

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 05-07-19 05:52 ET (US)     11 / 11       
did you ever found out if it was indeed a bug?
I call it a bug. I can't imagine deciding that a house without food has better sentiment than one with food.
I had completely forgot that shacks payed taxes :P
Shacks don't pay taxes at Very Hard difficulty, but most of the houses in the city were much better.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 05-07-2019 @ 05:57 AM).]

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