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Caesar IV Heaven » Forums » Caesar III: Game Help » Merging 2x2's, terrain graphics (and random walkers)
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Topic Subject:Merging 2x2's, terrain graphics (and random walkers)
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Trium3
Pleb
posted 06-26-08 17:50 ET (US)         
In my post to 'Randomness of Random Walkers (continued)' I suggested that it might be possible to determine the random number (or at least the relevant part of it) associated with a tile by examining the terrain. I have investigated this further and I offer my findings. Frustratingly, I still await a bump on the other thread (where I would rather post). Since the information is relevant to the merging of tents I am afforded a work-around.

It has been documented elsewhere that the .map and .sav files for Caesar 3 contain a grid of apparently random numbers. Each tile on a map is associated with one of those random numbers. For our purposes, we are only interested in the last three bits of the relevant number, i.e. the remainder after dividing the number by eight. I'll call this the 'seed'.

According to Brugle (who got it from, I believe, Nero Would) a group of four tents arranged in a 2x2 square will merge if the northernmost tent sits on a tile whose seed is 4 or less, and it won't if the seed is 5, 6 or 7. My tests show that this information is correct. It has hitherto been thought that experimentation is the only practical way to determine where tents will/won't merge, the alternative being to examine the binary data, requiring a knowledge of the layout of the game files and an understanding of coordinates/offsets etc. I can now show that there is another way, and it's actually quite easy.

Some players may regard this information as being of the nature of a 'spoiler'. You must make up your own mind and decide your attitude before reading on.

Looking at the games's graphics, most buildable terrain (apart from meadow) is covered with a general overlay made up of composite blocks of texture. There is, however, a set of eight different tiles, each corresponding to a 'seed' in the range 0 to 7. Furthermore, each of those eight has an 'alternative' form which is used (in Central provinces) to add the appearance of tufts of grass and small bushes. This alternative form is associated with the distribution of data in another of the grids embedded in the game files - if a number 32 (or more correctly, a number with the 32 bit set) appears in that grid the alternative form is used on the related tile. Now, if the random number in a tile is less than 16 the appropriate graphic from this set is allowed to show through the overlay.

Confused? If you have it available, load up a save of the career 'Valentia' and select 'replay' to get an empty map. If you don't have Valentia, you can probably still follow the discussion using another Central map.

Move your view over towards the entry point, between the road and the cliffs. On my copy, the sheep are resting but there's not much else to see - yours should be the same. Now, you see in the landscape some distinctive, green, cigar-shaped tufts? The ones that look like big caterpillars? There's one immediately south of the road-end at the entry point, and you'll find several more like it if you look around.

Every one of those is a 3-seed. You can be sure that tents will merge if you place the northern one on one of those. You can also be sure that any building placed with its northern tile on one of those will send out a SE labor seeker first, and you can be sure that if you place an intersection on one of those a random walker hitting it on the sixth tile of his random phase will go NE (if he can), because 6 + 3 = 9, divide by 8 leaves 1, and 1 means NE.

You see inside the first bend of the road a tile that looks like a small crater (or maybe a gopher-hole)? That's a 2 if ever I saw one, and there are a few more of those dotted about. But if you want housing to merge, avoid using tiles like the bush next door to (SW of) the gopher-hole because that's a 5 and it won't work. It will, however, send a walker NW if he should happen to 'ground' in an intersection placed on it (5+1=6).

Well, that's fine so far, but we only have a few of these distinctive tiles poking through the overlay here and there. What if we don't happen to have one handy where we want to evaluate a tile? That overlay is fragile. You can poke holes in it with the delete tool (at no cost). Click around and you'll reveal the tiles underneath. Dragging has strange effects caused by the program rearranging the composite blocks it uses to build the overlay, and you'll uncover some tiles while filling in others. The best way is to drag along a single row of tiles at a time - that way you can uncover everything. The seed value of every tile can thus be determined - except where it underlies meadow. There you will have to resort to the old trial and error techniques.

How do you know which tile type relates to which seed number? I've prepared a test file (20Kb)for you. It's in .map format and it demonstrates all the available terrain textures. With a bit of experience you'll soon be able to spot the tiles which serve your purpose, whatever that may be.

Enjoy.

[This message has been edited by Trium3 (edited 06-26-2008 @ 06:19 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 06-26-08 20:03 ET (US)     1 / 30       
I still await a bump
Caledonius
Pleb
posted 12-14-10 19:52 ET (US)     2 / 30       
Ave All,

I'm still ploughing my way through the old threads, I know this is probably off topic, but how do I access the .map file? I know this is a technical question, but I can't find the technical forum. - - - If I knew how to find the emoticons there would be a red blushing one in the gap!

I have downloaded and extracted the files, I have read the text one, problem is I don't know how to send the .map file to the game directory.

Anyway, and this is on topic, you can get seeding information from trees! Trium3 says in the text file that he is, specifically, talking about open terrain; not trees, nor any other terrain formations. I did a search using 'tree' and 'trees' and came up with nothing on this topic. Am I on to something? Rather than taking all the time, I'd like to think I can contribute something, even if not immediately, to this forum.

Taking Trium3's Valentia example, look for the next (3-seed) 'caterpillar' to the south-east. Continuing directly south-east, 3 tiles away, there is a line of 4 trees, set 2 back from the road. Delete those trees carefully, you will reveal 'caterpillars' on tiles 1,2 and 4. To your left, along the NW edge, heading west, where the dense clump of trees narrows down to 3 out, the last one that is 4 out reveals another. One tile to the south and 2 each E and W, same tree, same result. In the aforementioned dense clump, you'll find another 3 under a short, dark, blocky formations. They are difficult to pick out, the easiest ones to find? Go to the southernmost part of the map. Five tiles in, along the SE edge, alternatively the first trees, at the far side of the clearing, along the same edge, one in. So, 4 types of tree cover 3-seed/caterpillar tiles, therefore, it is reasonable to conclude there are 4*8=32 types of trees per map. I'll confirm that later.

I'll also take this a whole lot further, if it has not been covered before. In the meantime I'll share what little I have also established so far. I think the trees are broken down into 4 subsets, this is pure conjecture at the moment. There are, for example 8 variations of the dark green, 'spiky' types (could be cypresses or poplars), it seems to me that each covers a different type of meadow terrain. I have yet to absolutely confirm this. The Valentia map is an ideal place to check - lots of areas with just this type.

As intimated before, I'll be happy to investigate further; if someone can confirm this is new territory. Otherwise please point me in the general direction of the relevant thread.

Further observations:
Farmland forms a subset of 8, pure guess, can't see any reason for more than that though. Again Valentia is a great place to check - dense blocks of, uninterrupted, farmland. If you want to reveal the underlying terrain build, the detete walls - undo doesn't work.
Entry/exit posts must be part of the rocks subset. No iron or marble otherwise.

Further speculation:
There must be some sort of water subset, which does not include flotsam. I would suggest flotsam is a sprite!


Like flotsam I'm drifting. This is a topic for elsewhere if anyone cares to discuss it. In other words, time to go!

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

[This message has been edited by Caledonius (edited 12-14-2010 @ 07:56 PM).]

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 12-14-10 20:57 ET (US)     3 / 30       
how do I access the .map file?
Put it in the Caesar3 folder (where the other .map files are). When in the game, select City Construction Kit and then select the file from the list.
Caledonius
Pleb
posted 12-14-10 21:44 ET (US)     4 / 30       
Ave Brugle,

Thankyou, however, I got my head around it without the visual example. If that sounds ungrateful, I'm not; it'll come in handy if/when I download completed maps etc..

I've just been running a few quick experiments. Using the information from Trium3, I've been stripping back trees and open terrain in single rows. This reveals the texture underneath, I can now identify almost immediately where 2*2's will evolve. 2 of the 3 'bad' types jump out, the other needs closer inspection - with my eyes at any rate! So far 100% success in generating 2*2 tents where I want them. Place lots, singly, in the appropriate location, fill in the gaps and you get contiguous rows of 2*2! Equally, if you put lots in 'bad' locations first, you get plenty of 1*1 and the occasional 2*2. No where near enough data to be conclusive, but the early signs are good.

The implications are enormous; the 9*9 may be safe, but the 7*7 could be doomed! 8*8 in desert maps sounds very appealing. Well, maybe I'm getting a bit carried away, but one lives in hope.

Thanks again.

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
Senseisan
Pleb
posted 12-15-10 08:58 ET (US)     5 / 30       
As I use long walk instead of blocks , my way about merging is more " in media res " ...
Consider a South-West to North-East road.
A row off vacancy slots a tile away from road (Westward).
A row of Vacancies near the road (Eastward )
When they are tents , another row of vacancies near the road , beginning North in the West part , and a row behind the tents Eastward .
All that don't merge is pityless deleted .
Caledonius
Pleb
posted 12-15-10 14:09 ET (US)     6 / 30       
Ave Senesian,

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. My approach to C3 over time has been of the "suck it and see" style too. However, thanks to Trium3, I can now look at a map (central) and place lots and be absolutely certain they will merge. I know I will have a 2*2, in that location, all the way from small tent to grand insula. If you find a location that will support 9 (7 in desert maps) 2*2's, around the bend, at any of the cardinal points of a block, you can set the fountain one tile further away. Stable 10*10's (8*8's) then become an option.

The most useful application I have thought about, so far, is that 10*10 (and feasably 11*11) G-blocks can have many more service buildings inside. As I am new to the whole concept of 'forced' walkers (and control with gatehouses), I have used many G-blocks in the past. This is good news for me, as it applies to an aspect of the game I understand.

As for the demise of the 7*7 desert block, that announcment was, sadly, premature. I would only recommend staring at desert maps if you are fond of migraines. The only 'features' that I could pick out easily, pebbles, were part of the overlay, not the underlay. The underlay seems to have fewer features. I'm sure stable 8*8's are possible, but working on the subject did give me a headache.

If, like me, you are interested in building large cities, then central province maps are the obvious place to be - optimum fountain coverage and double wheat production. Stretching fountain coverage to an 11*11 plebian block might save a building or two.

I have only scratched the surface, so far (yes, it is a pun), I haven't ran anywhere near enough tests. The only small point of note is that you don't need to worry about dragging the delete cursor all over the map. Just tidy up the areas, row by row or tile by tile, where you want to put your housing lots. Dragging the cursor only resets the overlay. Same applies if you delete a building.

This is conjecture, but I think the way you paint in your housing lots affects how/whether they merge. I found an area on the Tarraco CCK map not far from the RtR where I could put 13 2*2's, in a row - guaranteed. It made no difference whether I waited until the first 13 tents were occupied or not I could paint in the other 39 immediately, they all merged as predicted. Painting them in in a 2*26 block, southernmost first, had the desired result. Working the opposite way generated 1*1's. There are a further two ways still to be tested.

Quote from Senesian:
As I use long walk instead of blocks , my way about merging is more " in media res " ...

Your approach to housing, is my approach to service buildings, purely because I don't fully understand how walkers behave - yet. But, Trium3 clearly put some effort into this thread, with attached demo, no less! The whole point of this, particular thread, so far as I understand it, was to eliminate guesswork regarding the emergence of 2*2 houses. It does so quite brilliantly. For example, I'm working on Tarraco CCK, to the west, north side, I can now see opportunites for housing to be fully serviced (don't like tents/firetraps) from one side of a stream whilst providing labour access on the other side. Until I fully understand walker behaviour, it is a joy to find an aspect of the game that I can not only relate to; but dare I say expand upon.

Quote from Trium3:
Enjoy.

I am, thankyou.

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

[This message has been edited by Caledonius (edited 12-15-2010 @ 02:48 PM).]

Trium
Pleb
posted 12-15-10 15:26 ET (US)     7 / 30       
Hi, Caledonius, and thanks for your emailed 'heads up' - I've not been around the forums much lately.

It's hard to believe it's two and a half years since I started this thread! I have to say that 'geomancy' (as I like to call it) didn't exactly set the Caesar 3 world on fire - I was never quite sure whether people weren't interested in it or whether they didn't understand it. Indeed, I more or less ignored it myself until I competed in the CBC Fishopolis contest earlier this year, and found that the ability to reliably recognize merging locations came a lot more quickly and easily than I imagined.

For that contest I had to find locations for over 1400 2x2s with reasonable density and it was a boon not to have to find them with trial and error. I did have an alternative home-made map-reading application which would identify these locations for me, but in contest play that feels like cheating so I don't use it.

Fishopolis was a northern map. If anything, I found it even easier to get acquainted with than central maps. Desert maps, of course, are quite difficult to discern and I think you'd have your work cut out.

With reference to your comments about merging long rows, merging occurs on a particular 'tick' in a 50-tick game cycle. Only plots where the northern tent is occupied on that tick are considered for merging. It does not matter whether the other tents are occupied or not (but they must not evolve beyond Small Tent). The game scans from north to south, so where two adjacent tents are both able to merge over other lots the northern-most will form the new house. If the northern-most is not yet occupied on the relevant tick, then of course the other merges instead and leaves you stuck with 1x1s.

[This message has been edited by Trium (edited 12-15-2010 @ 04:04 PM).]

Caledonius
Pleb
posted 12-15-10 17:28 ET (US)     8 / 30       
Trium,

Thanks for getting back to me. Thanks also for the warning about 2*2's not merging beyond small tent. That could have caused me no end of confusion.

I can't, personally, understand why geomancy didn't generate any response. A lot of threads discuss ,at length, the use of small statues to control how houses evolve. What you describe with this technique is both cheaper and easier.

Anyway I'm going to continue investigating trees - arboreal geomancy! If you check my profile, you'll understand where the interest in vegetation comes from.

I'm afraid I've got a bad dose of born-again enthusiasm. I also feel slightly guilty, there is so much on this forum that I've taken in; I'd just like to contribute in some way, however trivial that may be.

Thanks again.

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 12-15-10 19:00 ET (US)     9 / 30       
I have to say that 'geomancy' (as I like to call it) didn't exactly set the Caesar 3 world on fire - I was never quite sure whether people weren't interested in it or whether they didn't understand it. Indeed, I more or less ignored it myself until I competed in the CBC Fishopolis contest ... I had to find locations for over 1400 2x2s with reasonable density
I wasn't interested much before. Many of my cities have no houses poorer than large insula, in some of the rest 1x1 houses were OK, and in others it wasn't necessary to find the densest packing of 2x2 houses (so trial and error was reasonable).

But I'm interested now, for much the same reason as you. In my LuxPal256, I tried to pack 705 2x2 large tents around the minimum number of fountains. I got pretty good with trial and error, but if I attempt to build more palaces (which I'm considering) then I'd appreciate an easier way.

So, putting it simply, just clear single lines of ground and identify the terrain tiles (of which there are 8 possibilities for a given climate). Right?
The game scans from north to south, so where two adjacent tents are both able to merge over other lots the northern-most will form the new house.
I don't think so. I think the game scans the building list, so where two adjacent tents are both able to merge over other lots, the one that is first in the building list (often the one whose vacant lot was placed first) will merge.

(When multiple vacant lots are placed simultaneously by dragging the cursor, then the game recognizes the northernmost as having been built first.)
Trium
Pleb
posted 12-15-10 19:20 ET (US)     10 / 30       
Right?
Right
I don't think so. I think the game scans the building list .....(When multiple vacant lots are placed simultaneously by dragging the cursor, then the game recognizes the northernmost as having been built first.)
Sorry, I was assuming the rows were dragged. You're right, of course
Caledonius
Pleb
posted 12-17-10 03:37 ET (US)     11 / 30       
Ave All,

There is, of course, a caveat! I was running a little experiment, purely to satisfy my curiosity about something. I needed some service workers. So, I place a few lots in 2*2 merge locations, unfortunately, the homeless got there before the immigrants. Ruined the neighbourhood!

I picked a location where I 'knew' 3 2*2's would merge. I placed 3 single lots on the north tiles, the painted in the other 9 lots. Just before the immigrants arrived, one of the homless occupied one of the 9 lots, a 2*2 merged where I didn't want it. When I repeated the experiment I took more care placing the lots. I just waited until the first three became occupied before painting in. No problem, 2*2's every time.

I ran the tests quite a few times (it's way off-topic, so I wont go into it here), but you do get a bit bored waiting around for the result, so....

I decided to test my assertion that I would have stable 2*2's, all the way from small tent to grand insula. No problem at all - every time! So, naturally, the final time I ran the experiment I took the 3 2*2's up to villa level. I watered the tents by setting the fountain 1 tile back, 1/2 coverage. The only point that gave me cause for concern was when the first villa evolved - generating an unwatered 1*1. The second villa appeared soon enough though.

I was in the process of cursing myself for not finding a 4*2*2, stretch for two palaces, when the city went into meltdown. I'd been running at 100%, ignored 2 invasions and an uprising; not to mention diverting heaps of resources. All the data for the original experiment had been collected by then. Who says men can't multi-task, huh?

Anyway the villas were stable. As I pointed out in reply #6, I found a stretch, on Tarraco CCK, that would support 13 2*2's. It's easy enough to find: extend the entrance road until you hit the first tree. 8 tiles to the NW is your first north tile. There are 13 contiguous 2*2 locations running SW. In the headland to the NW there is an area that will generate 9 2*2's in a chevron arrangement, pointing north. You can't get a road around it, but its there. *Edit - I meant to say right around, it's one tile short, on the coast* I haven't looked anywhere else, I'm not a masochist, there are easier ways. The point is you can have 10*10 blocks that can devovle to tents and recover.

There was an old thread I wanted to refer to, which I can't find. I must have come across it in a search for something else. I'll edit it in when I find it again. Sorry about that, must be the progressive degenerative disorder that I suffer from - middle-age! Anyway, it was the only other thread I have found, so far, that is relevant to this one. There was a discussion about generating/modifying a map with all the tiles seeded to 0, guaranteeing 2*2's. Some talk about how all the tent, rock and tree graphics were the same. A reply that used a couple of Boolean expressions - that put me straight into skim, I'll read that later mode. I left a tab open, must've closed it or re-used it. Oops!

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

[This message has been edited by Caledonius (edited 12-17-2010 @ 04:32 AM).]

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 06-06-11 18:08 ET (US)     12 / 30       
each of those eight has an 'alternative' form which is used (in Central provinces) to add the appearance of tufts of grass and small bushes
I downloaded the example terrain map, changed it to a northern province, and examined it. In each of the 10x10 squares, there are two forms of terrain--in other words, the alternative forms appeared. However, on every northern climate map I examined, no alternative forms appeared. I'm not complaining--identifying the merging tiles would be a lot more difficult if the alternative forms appeared--I'm just confused. What's up?

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 06-06-2011 @ 06:08 PM).]

Trium
Pleb
posted 06-11-11 18:01 ET (US)     13 / 30       
Not sure - I did this research three years back and it's not as familiar now as it was then. When I played Fishopolis (a northern map) I was surprised to find that avoiding just three tile designs was all I needed to do to guarantee merged tents when my recollection led me to expect a greater variety.

I'd have to study a few maps to shed any further light, and at the moment I'm on a 78-hour week at work so I barely have time to even read the forum at the moment (which is also why you haven't heard back from me in the other thread yet - I really do apologize).
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 06-11-11 22:53 ET (US)     14 / 30       
Trium,

I have a possible explanation. As you said in the opening post:
This alternative form is associated with the distribution of data in another of the grids embedded in the game files - if a number 32 (or more correctly, a number with the 32 bit set) appears in that grid the alternative form is used on the related tile.
If the 32 bit in that "another of the grids" is not random (but instead is a function of the 3-bit "seed") and if you set the 3-bit "seeds" to specific values in your example terrain map (without appropriately changing the 32 bit in the "another of the grids"), then the dilemma is resolved.

Don't apologize for being busy. Above all else, forum participation should be fun.
philon
Pleb
posted 06-21-12 15:30 ET (US)     15 / 30       
I took some screenshots from Trium's file to make it easier while I'm working on this. I thought I would share.

Here is a single image file if you want to download it.
[JPEG, (242.87 KB)]

Now the only thing I need to learn is how to manage the map editor to create those seeds.




[This message has been edited by Philon (edited 06-21-2012 @ 03:34 PM).]

philon
Pleb
posted 06-21-12 16:38 ET (US)     16 / 30       
Does anybody know how Trium created that map file? Did he edit the binary codes in the file? I can't find a way in the map editor. If you can't control the terrain in the map editor, this whole topic is not much of practical value.

[This message has been edited by Philon (edited 06-21-2012 @ 04:51 PM).]

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 06-21-12 17:31 ET (US)     17 / 30       
how Trium created that map file? Did he edit the binary codes in the file?
Yes (I'm pretty sure).
If you can't control the terrain in the map editor, this whole topic is not much of practical value.
I suppose that depends on what you mean by "practical" and "this whole topic". I think that CBC has had a contest or two with files edited to change merge locations.

lemmus (aka Trurl) created a Rome-supplies-wheat city with a higher population than the record holder by editing the map file so that all locations allowed merging. This was rejected by the other participants in the 50,000 club challenge, as it was considered (properly, in my opinion) to be a cheat similar to editing c3_model.txt.

If by "this whole topic" you mean identifying merge locations using terrain, I found it useful when building 2x2 large tents in Palace Peaks. (I used trial-and-error when building LuxPal256, which was considerably more work.)

By the way, I don't remember you being from London. Is my memory faulty (certainly possible)?

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 06-21-2012 @ 05:39 PM).]

philon
Pleb
posted 06-22-12 03:18 ET (US)     18 / 30       
I guess I was surprised by this whole topic because it is a non issue and it is easy to check if a 2x2 house will merge on a certain location or not by doing a quick test run.

I had some problems with industry blocks where a 2x2 tent was needed for labour access and even if you moved the tent location it wouldn't evolve. Sometimes it was possible to solve it by moving industry but sometimes I had move the whole block just because of a tent.

After seeing all the posts in this topic and the long text that comes with Trium's zip file, I thought there might be some way to edit terrain in the map editor which would solve the real problem. But there isn't, which is a shame.

I think in this game there is no need to read clues from terrain to see what the future might bring when you can run the game and see it for yourself and then come back which is the best way to solve all sorts of problems before they happen.

A few ordinary players have posted messages in this and the randomness of random walkers thread making me think that there was something important here. I would probably tell them all to move on and forget about these topics because they are never going to need it.

I moved to the UK in 2004 after a job offer and have been living in London since then. But you are right. That wasn't the case when I joined this forum in 2002. I guess C3 has helped me indirectly because I improved my English a little after spending so much time in this forum and I had to pass some tests in English back then.

[This message has been edited by Philon (edited 06-22-2012 @ 03:19 AM).]

Caledonius
Pleb
posted 04-17-13 06:43 ET (US)     19 / 30       
Hello Brugle, Trium, et al,

First of all may I say I'm glad to be able to post again. Soon after my last contribution I suffered a nasty injury to my right hand, which required several operations, each with a lengthy recovery period and endless physio, to get to the stage where I am capable of holding a coffee cup. Aside from pecking at the keyboard with my left hand for essential email, I have rarely touched my machine.

I have yet to read through the threads posted since I was last here, over two years ago, but this topic still interests me a great deal; so I will not apologise for the bump.

I hope you are well, I look forward to speaking (metaphorically) with you both and others soon.

Regards,

Caledonius

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 04-17-13 07:33 ET (US)     20 / 30       
Caledonius,
I'm sure we all hope that your hand continues to improve and that we hear some more from you.
Caledonius
Pleb
posted 04-17-13 10:58 ET (US)     21 / 30       
Thankyou Brugle,

I see from your previous post (#17), that you have put this thread to some use and Trium and yourself have moved forward. Did you ever get around to establishing a stable 10*10, or even find any locations on the mission maps that would support one? Unfortunately, I have lost all my saves of the things I was working on (my 'broken' laptop was disposed of by a well-meaning elderly relative, she had no idea the files were recoverable), so I'll have to start again.

Once I've read through the posts from the past two years, I plan to do some work on 'geomancy', as Trium likes to call it, using the CCK, before I get back to city building.

If I find anything interesting in either the old threads or through research, I'll post. Although questions are more likely.

It is amazing that a game that will be 15 years old this year can still generate such interest.

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 04-17-13 14:55 ET (US)     22 / 30       
Did you ever get around to establishing a stable 10*10, or even find any locations on the mission maps that would support one?
No, that has never interested me.

My use for "geomancy" was to quickly identify the 2x2 merging locations for large tents around the potential fountains in my Palace Peaks. (Some players might find Palace Peaks interesting.)
If I find anything interesting in either the old threads or through research, I'll post. Although questions are more likely.
Excellent.
philon
Pleb
posted 08-27-14 20:37 ET (US)     23 / 30       
It would be great if we had information about CCK maps that shows which tiles will merge to 2x2. This is something Trium mentioned in the text file that was inside the zip file in the opening message.
Nero Would submitted some Excel files to the Pharoah Heaven downloads section some years back which he derived from the binary code and which showed the locations where primitive housing will/will not merge on all the campaign maps. I don't know if this has ever been done for Caesar 3 but it would not be difficult.
The file in the opening message is not downloadable anymore but I re-uploaded it here.

It turns out Nero Would did actually do the same thing for Caesar 3 career maps. Here is the excel file that you want: Maps: Spoilers Caesar 3". It has been in downloads section for 10 years.

Below is a screenshot from that file. The red symbols show tiles that don't merge into 2x2. The file has maps for all career missions.

Unfortunately CCK maps are not included in Nero's excel file. It is a shame because you can edit a CCK map and create any custom map you want and the 2x2 tiles don't change.

[This message has been edited by Philon (edited 08-27-2014 @ 08:39 PM).]

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 08-27-14 22:15 ET (US)     24 / 30       
It turns out Nero Would did actually do the same thing for Caesar 3 career maps.
Yes, Nero Would described them in the Excel maps of career assignments thread.
philon
Pleb
posted 08-28-14 00:13 ET (US)     25 / 30       
I'm working on this. I think I will manage to read 2x2 data from sav files and convert it to an excel file. I'm using Caesar Jan's Game Explorer, a hex editor called HxD and excel.

I did something similar a while ago to read walker numbers from sav files. It works similar. The data is in section 10 mentioned here.
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