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Zeus: Game Help
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Caesar IV Heaven » Forums » Zeus: Game Help » You will all be delighted to hear..............
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Topic Subject:You will all be delighted to hear..............
Grumpus The Elder
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 10-17-00 14:54 ET (US)         
That being bored, and at loose ends, I have decided to clutter up the net with yet another Which Way to Wherever page.

This one is Which Way To Troy . There isn't much there now, but you can rest assured that the ubiquitous housing blocks and other assorted crap will soon be up.

One thing that I have done is jot down some of the things that I have found to be new or different in Zeus. Since this is rather long, I will post it as the first reply. All this stuff is from the beta version and could differ somewhat from the retail version.

AuthorReplies:
Grumpus The Elder
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 10-17-00 15:20 ET (US)     1 / 26       

 

Some Things New or Different in Zeus.

(Please note that all the drivel on this page comes from the Zeus beta - Released verion may differ)

1 - In Zeus you do not have to provide local housing to farms or industry. Workers are provided from a central labor pool.

2 - Food or provisions are provided by vendors located in Agoras. A Common Agora is 3x6 , and is placed over a road. Icons representing food, oil, and fleece vendors are then placed upon the Agora. These vendors obtain food or provisions from storage yards or granariesm much like market ladies do in Pharaoh.

3 - Houses are initially stocked with only two units of food for each inhabitant as opposed to six units in Pharaoh. As a result, houses develop much more quickly. As in Pharaoh, consumption seems to be 1/4 unit food per month per person, and two units per month of other goods per house.

4 - All worker housing is 2x2.

5 - It's much harder to get workers in Zeus than it was in Pharaoh because:

If you had 100 housing squares in Pharaoh, you would initially get 5 immigrants per square or 500 total. This would give you about 200 workers. If you then added a water supply you would get another two inhabitants per square and another 80 workers overall giving you almost 300 workers for the 100 housing squares.

In Zeus, since all worker housing is 2x2, you would end up with 25 houses. Each house will attract 8 immigrants, so you will end up with 200 people of which about 80 will be workers. In Zeus, you must provide food before housing will develop any further, so you have to use a portion of these workers to get food. This means that, generally speaking, you have to develop food souces before industry. To make things somewhat easier, it does seem that immigrants arrive much more rapidly in Zeus.

Also housing in Zeus hold fewer people than does equivalent housing in Pharaoh. The highest level of Zeus worker housing is the Townhouse which can accomodate 60 people. Fancy Residences in Pharaoh can hold 92.

6 - Because of the above, Zeus housing blocks hold fewer people than similiar blocks in Pharaoh. Also many of the service building required to service worker housing are larger in Zeus than they were in Pharaoh. To build Townhouses, which are the highest level of worker housing, you need:

Type
Size
Workers
Common Agora
3x6
12
Fountain
2x2
4
Gymnasium
3x3
7
Infirmary
3x3
11
Maintance Office
2x2
5
Podium
2x2
4
Tax Office
2x2
8
Theater
3x5
18
Watchpost
2x2
6

 

7 - Getting housing to evolve seems to be easier overall than it was in Pharaoh. The steps are:

 

Name
Desirability
Culture
Water
%Soldiers
Food
Fleece
Oil
Prosperity
Population
TRM
Hut
-99
0
0
0
0
0
0
5
8
1
Shack
-12
0
0
0
1
0
0
10
16
1
Hovel
-2
15
1
20
1
0
0
15
24
1
Homestead
-2
25
1
20
1
1
0
20
32
2
Tenement
5
35
1
25
1
1
0
25
40
2
Apartment
15
40
1
25
1
1
1
30
48
2
Townhouse
25
45
1
25
1
1
1
40
60
2

Notice that the Tax Rate Multiplier does not increment as rapidly as it does in Pharaoh.

 

8 - Tax income seems to be lower than it was in Pharaoh. I took a housing block (soon to be at a web site near you!!) consisting of 35 houses (140 housing squares), and built it step-by-step. After each level of housing was completely occupied, I waited a year and then, in January, noted the taxes paid in the previous year.

Type
Population
Workers
Taxes Paid
Huts
280
117
300
Shacks
560
235
600
Hovels
840
352
900
Homesteads
1120
470
2412
Tenements
1400
588
3024
Apartments
1680
705
3624
Townhouses
2100
882
4536

 

Lazarus
Pleb
posted 10-17-00 15:31 ET (US)     2 / 26       
That's grreat GTT! I'm sure everybody appreciated your work with C3, and even though I don't have Zeus, I know your page will help a lot once I start playing.
Keep up the good work!

<>

squeezing in a quick message between 20 IS errors...

Nero Would
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 10-17-00 15:36 ET (US)     3 / 26       
Nice work Grumpus! I've already bookmarked your site.

Is there such a thing as a city tax rate (as there is in Pharaoh), and if so was it set to 9% for your test? If it was, the monthly taxes paid by each person seems to be the city tax rate times the tax rate multiplier of the house. That is twice the amount paid in Pharaoh, although as you say, it is still low on a per tile basis.

(My first attempt at bean counting in Zeus, and I don't even have the game yet)

Grumpus The Elder
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 10-17-00 15:53 ET (US)     4 / 26       
Nero:

In Zeus the tax rate is not a % figure. Instead you set it at one of the following:

None
Very Low
Low
Normal
High
Very High
Outrageous

I used the normal rating.

Also, while on the subject of taxes. I usually found it advantageous to build a palace and start taxing before atempting to get industry going because at the "Hero" difficulty level (= normal)a palace only costs 250 dr.

In my blocks, the first wave of immigration produces 117 workers. This usually was just enough to provide food, infrastructure, palace, and tax.

paultheo
Banned
posted 10-17-00 16:08 ET (US)     5 / 26       
AWESOME is all I can say
Regina
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 10-18-00 01:00 ET (US)     6 / 26       
Every word of the site read and bookmarked for future reference!
RSC
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 10-18-00 03:53 ET (US)     7 / 26       
I find it easier to get workers because of the easier evolution of housing. In Pharaoh, top worker class housing needed three goods and two different foods. With only one neccessary food and two goods in Zeus, it's not too tough to get housing up to Townhouses, and I've made profits and had 50% unemployment with one of these blocks: (people were still happy)

Roads surounded by gardens indicate boulevards (sorry, never been a good speller )


Legend

This is the largest I've tried (and it works wonderfly with one set of services, and allows room for all sorts of extra goodies), but I think the walkers will last longer. Currently, it holds 1920 people, but I bet we could get more houses in .

I also find it advantageous to build a few early Carding Sheds and a bunch of sheep (they're really cheap), since sheep take awhile to get "clothed". Then, I will have fleece ready fairly early.

I find trading to be less prolific than in Pharaoh/C3. With a bunch of established estates, only food, oil, wine, and fleece need to be produced/imported, and relitivly few services are needed (compared with earlier games). Thus estates are fairly cheap to make, really easy to maintain (once horses and armor are initially given to them) and produce A LOT of drachmas .

Hmm...one more tip . Don't make Zeus mad . It wasn't fun (well it was, just not for my citizens ).

Too long again, oh well...

RSC

Caylynn
Pleb
posted 10-18-00 08:18 ET (US)     8 / 26       
Thanks Grumpus. I can't wait to get my hands on Zeus!


Help Others With A Click! * Join Care2.com's Race for the Big Cats! * Join Care2.com's Race for the Rain Forest!
Proud to be Canadian! Fiere d'etre canadienne!

Bradius
Pleb
posted 10-18-00 08:57 ET (US)     9 / 26       
Thanks Grumpus!

I can't wait to check out your new site. I am sure it will be very helpful. Earlier today I referred a new Pharaoh player having trouble getting his housing blocks to work over to your site. Your housing block development was truely wonderful and easy to follow.

Nero, regarding taxes. I used the highest taxing rate and paid the highest wages while playing on normal difficulty without any problems. After my housing had evolved some, it did help improve my cash flow. However, in general you will find that you can't exploit tax income quite as well as we did in Pharaoh. Or at least that has been my experience so far.

Bradius

Grumpus The Elder
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 10-18-00 14:42 ET (US)     10 / 26       
RSC:

I agree that getting both worker and elite housing to evolve is easier in Zeus than it was in Pharaoh.

Still, the fact that each housing square in Zeus produces fewer workers than the equivalent space in Pharaoh has really forced me to change my approach to the game.

In Pharaoh I could get almost 400 workers from the first wave of immigration. This was more than enough to staff both a food source and the first industries.

In Zeus I use a slightly larger block and can only get 117 workers from that first wave. Then I must provide food before I can get any more help. (assuming I don't want to build another block). I find that this 117 workers is just about enough to provide food, infrastructure, and maybe taxes.

One great advantage of Zeus is the speed with which new immigrants come into the city. I measured this yesterday and saw 420 immigrants arrive in less than 6 months.


Reckless Rodent
HG Halo Alumnus
(id: Angel Reckless Rodent)
posted 10-18-00 16:09 ET (US)     11 / 26       
Regarding wage rates, here's something I picked out of the readme file, which Gustavia sent over to me:

quote:
Raising wages will draw more workers from your existing population, but don't do this for too long, or you could wind up broke.

Hmm...interesting...
Gustavia
Pleb
posted 10-18-00 16:37 ET (US)     12 / 26       
Something else I gleaned from the big fat manual is the possiblility of muggers, thieves and vandals..

gotta keep those folks happy


Angel Gustavia
Caesar III Pharaoh
Zeus Gustavia's Garden


RSC
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 10-18-00 20:03 ET (US)     13 / 26       
About unrest...

Not tested, but two things caught my eye: Dionysus prevents unrest and Aphrodite prevents people from emigrating. So if you have temples to both of them, what's to stop you from paying them nothing and taxing them outrageously?

RSC

Gustavia
Pleb
posted 10-18-00 20:08 ET (US)     14 / 26       
Try and let us know

If both are available in an episode, it would be a nice experiment.

That is what is going to be so cool about this game, and of course make any kind of walkthru very difficult... but it has so many options and ways to play

Angel Gustavia
Caesar III Pharaoh
Zeus Gustavia's Garden


RSC
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 10-18-00 20:20 ET (US)     15 / 26       
I'm starting a new adventure now (just finished Z&E), hopefully both will be "friendly".

RSC

Lazarus
Pleb
posted 10-19-00 03:11 ET (US)     16 / 26       
ARR: That sounds like Caesar 2...I presonnaly liked that system, and it makes sense, too.
RSC
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 10-19-00 03:47 ET (US)     17 / 26       
It works exactly as it sounds.

I didn't do a complete test (so I don't know the exact numbers) but, with a completely stable population and 0 workers needed, raising wages from normal gave me unemployment and lowering them gave me shortages.

In P&M, Aphrodite isn't friendly (not an enemy either, though), so the other test has to wait. Luckily, I'm on the last episode .

RSC

Baltic
Pleb
posted 10-20-00 07:15 ET (US)     18 / 26       
OMG... number of employees depending on wages? That'll be interesting. I wonder how many more things like that are hidden in Zeus .

Cherub Baltic

Nero Would
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 10-20-00 09:13 ET (US)     19 / 26       
Has anyone noticed if the fraction of the population that is available to work depends on the age of the population (as it did in Pharaoh) or does it only depend on wages? Is there even a display that shows the age distribution of the population?

Although it is realistic to take the age of the population into account, I was not really happy with this feature in Pharaoh and Caesar III since.

  1. You could never tell exactly how many people were of what age and you could not predict what would happen to the size of your workforce.

  2. The way the demographics worked after 20 years caused people to come up with drastic solutions to prevent the steady reduction in workforce.

Grumpus The Elder
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 10-20-00 09:52 ET (US)     20 / 26       
Nero:

In my first reply I had a table that showed taxes paid at each housing level.

When I made this table, I did so by spending a game year meeting the conditions for evolvement to the next level and waiting for the new immigrants to arrive and settle down. I then waited another game year to see how much taxes this now stable population paid.

So the seven levels of evolvement took me about 14 game years. I was struck by the fact that I could predict how many workers I could get by each succeeding wave of immigration. Age did not seem to effect the population at all.

This was all from the beta version. I now have the retail version, and will check this out when I can.

Reckless Rodent
HG Halo Alumnus
(id: Angel Reckless Rodent)
posted 10-20-00 11:59 ET (US)     21 / 26       
I think it also depends on the difficulty level - I can't remember if this was the same in Pharaoh, but I think that in Zeus, different difficulty levels have different numbers of people required to man each building.

I could be wrong though...

Nero Would
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 10-20-00 12:45 ET (US)     22 / 26       
Thanks for the replies Grumpus and ARR. As I said, I think removing the age factor from the employee calculation is an improvement. And allowing you to pay more to get more workers or save money if you have unemployment will be a nice addition.

As far as Pharaoh difficulty level goes, I haven't noticed difficulty affecting the size of the working population in Pharaoh (but I haven't really looked at it). Pharaoh is designed so that the number of employees required by each building could vary with difficulty level since the number is in the model file. But in fact each building has the same number of employees listed in each of the model files, so Impressions choose not to exercise that option.

[This message has been edited by Nero Would (edited 10-20-2000).]

RSC
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 10-20-00 14:22 ET (US)     23 / 26       
I can verify the lack of the age factor - working force has been stable in Athens for almost thirty years, only changes when I change wages/housing devolves (havn't added another housing block for...thirty years ).

RSC

[This message has been edited by RSC (edited 10-20-2000).]

RSC
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 10-20-00 17:54 ET (US)     24 / 26       
The final word on workers:

When asked about the % of population that works, Apollopalooza says:

quote:
Only a certain percentage of your population works. This can be tweaked by adjusting your wages, but you'll never get 100% of your population employed. That sort of thing just doesn't happen.

I'll ask to verify that age doesn't affect workers.

RSC

Bradius
Pleb
posted 10-20-00 21:05 ET (US)     25 / 26       
That is interesting about wages increasing your work force. It makes since. I have been paying my people top wages just to be able to tax them at the top level. Now I find that I was getting another benefit too! Great!

Bradius

RSC
Pharaolympics 2000 Competitor
posted 10-21-00 01:42 ET (US)     26 / 26       
I'll save you a bit of simple counting Grumpus -

Numbers in the cells refer to the percent of the population (excluding elites) that works.

Wage Rate
NoneVery LowLowNormalHighVery High
D
i
f
f
i
c
u
l
t
y
Beginner424649525557
Mortal374144475052
Hero323639424547
Titan293336394244
Olympian273134374042

As you can see, Mortal is 5% less than Beginner, Hero is 5% less than Mortal, Titan is 3% less than Hero, and Olympian is 2% less than Titan.

I did two tests - 25 Huts (or 200 people) and 50 Townhouses (3000 people). All the worker percents came out to exactly the same "nice" numbers, so I didn't have to round.

RSC

[This message has been edited by RSC (edited 10-21-2000).]

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