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Caesar IV Heaven » Forums » The Town Square » Ave, fellow Governors!
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Topic Subject:Ave, fellow Governors!
Squid Empire
Pleb
posted 08-06-14 01:26 ET (US)         
Just popping in after looking up some guides for Caesar III.
I must say I was surprised that this game still has an active community, but then again, this is heaven games

So anyway I recently acquired a copy of Caesar III and had a plod through some of the campaign missions. I've been playing Pharaoh for years, but never even knew it was part of a series until I looked up impression games. So yeah I went out and tracked down a copy of Caesar III, with the reasoning that I wanted to see the most up to date roman version without 3D graphics.

My impressions of the game so far have been that it is far, far more difficult than Pharaoh and other contemporary city builders (except if you count Patricians *shudder*). I constantly find my employment rating swerving between riot-inducing 25% and fund draining deficits of up to 300 workers. My income is often painfully slow, especially to start, and seems to jump from the negatives to the high thousands rapidly and frequently; prompting the cutscene "You again?!" every few minutes.

House managing seems a bit mysterious, but the greatest problem for me coming from Pharaoh, is that the plebs dare actually protest their circumstances. With huge farmlands I often put small huts among the farms just to get workers there, and in Pharaoh this was never a problem, but now those workers start burning the town to the ground!

After browsing a bit through the forums, it seems that the sort of 'planned town' approach with carefully managed housing and amenities tiles are very popular in this game. Those sort of things are also very common in Anno communities, but I never really got into them. For me, I love building a city 'naturally' watching it expand outwards in a ramshackle way. To each their own, though I suspect my decision is probably why my peons are so restless.

There are also a lot of good things. For one, I'm much more focused in Caesar III than in Pharaoh of Anno 1602. Maybe not as much as in Tropico, but it's still an attention demanding game. The military aspects are better in my opinion that those in Pharaoh, especially as there's no naval combat.

I like the music, especially the opening city and final city tracks, although they get a bit repetitive. A final criticism is the low levels of dynamic 'world map' events, like new trade routes etc. But that's retrospective, as they added those in Pharaoh.

One thing that constantly puzzles me is the voice acting, why are these ancient Roman citizens speaking in English accents...? The cart-pushers cockney attitude is my favorite though; "I tell you what, it'd be quicker to push these carts to RHOME then where I'm going"

So cheers fellow governors, many happy centuries to you all

AuthorReplies:
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 08-06-14 09:41 ET (US)     1 / 8       
Hi Squid Empire,

If I haven't already said it, welcome to city-building Heaven.
Caesar III ... My impressions of the game so far have been that it is far, far more difficult than Pharaoh and other contemporary city builders
Caesar III is considered by most players to be the most difficult of the city builders that came from the same basic engine (C3, Pharaoh, Zeus, and Emperor). Perhaps the greatest problem comes with not having special orders in markets.
I constantly find my employment rating swerving between riot-inducing 25% and fund draining deficits of up to 300 workers. My income is often painfully slow, especially to start, and seems to jump from the negatives to the high thousands rapidly and frequently; prompting the cutscene "You again?!" every few minutes.
I would expect a player who can handle these problems (employment swings and varying income) in Pharaoh to handle them in C3.
With huge farmlands I often put small huts among the farms just to get workers there, and in Pharaoh this was never a problem, but now those workers start burning the town to the ground!
In C3, it appears that city sentiment is the average sentiment of the houses, and my guess is that Pharaoh works the same. Bad city sentiment can cause emigration in both games. However, in C3, bad sentiment in houses (tents tend to be the worst) causes crime there, and riots can occur when there is crime in houses and city sentiment is not too good. Pharaoh handles crime differently, and it is easy to avoid crime with constables or magistrates.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 08-06-2014 @ 09:42 AM).]

Squid Empire
Pleb
posted 08-07-14 00:21 ET (US)     2 / 8       
Thanks for the welcome

I'm not sure what it is about Caesar as compared to Pharaoh, but whatever it is, it really bites!

My estimation is that a variety of factors are involved, probably the smaller number of resources being traded (type, not quantity) in Caesar is a factor. If say I run out of furniture and pottery in one level, then I'm trading nothing, whereas in Pharaoh I'd still have maybe two or three other backups to continue selling while I fix production.

The employment woes are the most mysterious because I never really ever had any issues with employees in Pharaoh. In Caesar I find myself building huge housing areas to get enough employees, and then once they evolve I suddenly have massive unemployment, which I generally solve by new industry or in desperate cases, lots of hospitals.

Yeah I agree with what you said about crime in these games. Once again I have only seen egyptian criminals once or twice, (outside mission triggers) but in Caesar I've had two cities razed by marauding plebs.

Ah well. I should give Damascus another go...

philon
Pleb
posted 08-07-14 14:16 ET (US)     3 / 8       
Hi Squid Empire,

I think Caesar 3 is by far better than Pharaoh. I played Pharaoh a few times and it is OK but it is not even half as good as Caesar 3.
I constantly find my employment rating swerving between riot-inducing 25%
Unemployment in Caesar3 is not a problem at all. You just need to use the correct settings for wages and taxes. I have built a city called Ephesus with a population over 90K and I just checked unemployment and it is 84% but that's fine because wages are 38Dn (+8 of Rome) and taxes are 11%. Regarding city mood it says people love me. So try these settings and I think it should work.
My income is often painfully slow, especially to start,
I recommend that you build the industry and turn it off. Then built your housing block. As you get enough workforce gradually turn on industries. To start off the fastest way I sometimes go over -5000 on purpose at the beginning.

To do that build everything except vacant lots in your largest housing block. Open trade routes too. Let's say you are -4990. Now with one mouse move (drag the mouse from one corner to the other of the housing block and release) build all vacant lots in the block at one go. Let's say it costs 1000Dn. You will end up at -5990 but that's fine because trade income with start soon. If something burns before you have money to fix it, go back to an earlier save.

In Caesar3 in career cities it is always a good idea to start of with trade income, then when you have enough cash stop exporting completely and delete industry blocks. Built some higher level houses and switch to tax income. The reason you don't want to continue exporting is because you will need the workforce to support high level houses.
The military aspects are better in my opinion that those in Pharaoh,
The strongest army against you in Caesar3 are Caesar's legions. When Caesar is angry with you he sends his legions to destroy your city but if you beat them he sends a stronger army and they are really tough to beat but if you prepare well enough you can keep beating them and it is great fun.

In Caesar3 I especially like the hippodrome scene at the beginning when you start the game. The music is amazing. When you start building a city it plays a few different tunes. I guess the music changes according to milestones achieved. At the very end when you have a big city, it plays an exciting music which I also like a lot.

I think I would have liked Pharaoh more if the music was better.

[This message has been edited by Philon (edited 08-07-2014 @ 02:35 PM).]

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 08-07-14 16:26 ET (US)     4 / 8       
To start off the fastest way I sometimes go over -5000 on purpose at the beginning.
If that's the way you like to play, that's fine. In the career missions (and the CCK missions that I've tried), it's easy to earn lots of money without going into debt. (I'm sure that isn't the case with some player scenarios.)
Squid Empire
Pleb
posted 08-07-14 22:17 ET (US)     5 / 8       
Thanks for the hints guys

I hadn't really thought about the manipulation of wages like that, I've generally always just set the wage to rome's or slightly higher.

With taxes, I've never really been able to raise a significant amount that way, is there some trick to maximising tax income?

About the music, Pharaoh's music was far subtler in it's cues and was more ambient. The Caesar music is more exciting sure but it gets repetitive fast whereas the Pharaoh music is low key enough that when it repeats it isn't really noticeable.

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 08-07-14 22:57 ET (US)     6 / 8       
I've generally always just set the wage to rome's or slightly higher ... is there some trick to maximising tax income?
I will assume that the player is not trying to raise Prosperity as fast as possible and does not want to adjust wages or taxes multiple times per month.

Before collecting taxes, wages should be high enough so that people are happy, but no higher.

However, once you start collecting taxes, if houses are good enough then net income may increase by raising taxes and also raising wages enough to keep people happy. When I have pretty good houses I set wages to 8 over Rome's rate (the highest that does any more good) and adjust taxes to the highest that allows people to stay happy. With good houses and low unemployment, you can tax at 25% (even at Very Hard difficulty), producing a huge income in a large city.
philon
Pleb
posted 08-08-14 04:13 ET (US)     7 / 8       
As far as I know all these 4 are connected:

1. city mood
2. unemployment
3. wages
4. taxes

You can change the last three directly. To reduce unemployment I used to build fountain farms. Fountains can be built anywhere on the map. They don't need a reservoir to use workforce either. If you built 100, that is 400 extra workforce used. Then you can delete some of them as your census changes and your workforce drops.

Missions posts are another alternative. Each of them uses 20 workers. You would only need to built 20 of them to use 400 more workers. They don't need labor access. They don't have fire or damage risk. They just need roads and if you remove the road they stop using workforce.

Later I stopped using this technique and switched to rising wages. I think it is possible to create a chart that shows whether reducing unemployment or rising wages is better in terms of maximizing tax income. If I was playing in a contest I would probably test all these but in career missions money was plenty in all cities.

As a general rule I would say, don't bother manipulating unemployment with fountains or mission posts. Set wages +8 than Rome and set taxes as high as you can without dropping city mood below "people are indifferent to you".

Also I wouldn't bother taxing people until I had houses at insulae or higher level. But to get the high tax multipliers what you really want are villas or palaces. It is explained here and there is a link on that page to a housing data table that shows tax multipliers for each housing level.

http://www.citybuildingcontests.net/Caesar-Alan/money.html#taxes

[This message has been edited by Philon (edited 08-08-2014 @ 04:33 AM).]

Squid Empire
Pleb
posted 08-10-14 04:26 ET (US)     8 / 8       
Thanks for the replies everyone
I'll be sure to stick around here for a while.

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