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Topic Subject:Gods
Ubastet
Pleb
posted 06-04-00 12:06 ET (US)         
Why didn't Impressions use the right things for the gods?

There are many other things that, for example, Bast can do. She was the patron god of expecting mothers, so she boosted population and increaced the likelyness that your people would live longer lives and have more children. She often manifested herself in the form of a cat, yet our people in Pharaoh have no cats, no cat tombs, no cats in Bast's temples, and don't shave their eyebrows when a family cat dies. There are no feline mortuaries, no mumified kitten sellers, and no offerings of small mice or rats. When Bast throws a festival for the other gods she always throws a common festival and often angers the patron god, as he or she is probably used to lavish or grand festivals.

Osiris does about all he can do, but what about the monsoons in Africa? Weren't those supposed to be FROM Osiris? Is the Nilometer an atheist or something? Maybe a... Hebrew?

Ra also was, at times, the god of the sun. Why don't we worry that there will be no dawn if Ra is angry? Shouldn't we be worrying anout our afterlives if Ra is angry? And what's up with Horus being a Sub-god?

I must say that before I started Pharaoh I had only heard of Ptah once, and then he was the god of linen, Weavers, and Spinsters. At the time I was doing a 3,000 word report on the gods of Egypt and, I am proud to say, included three hundred deities.

Seth, god of destruction, War, and crocodiles. We kill crocodiles! On purpose! A soldier who attacked a crocodile could expect a very short life, and an even shorter afterlife, with the latter being much, much, more painful, agonizing, and overall not very fun what-so-ever.

I understand that they could not fit in all the god(esse)s, but if you only put in four or five god(esse)s at least let us use them to their full potential!

-Ubastet

AuthorReplies:
SethsRaven
Pleb
posted 06-04-00 12:35 ET (US)     1 / 20       
I totally agree...I often wonder where they got their info from, its pretty accurate for the most part, but the Bast info is woefully lacking...I think they were trying to make up for the lack of seeing kitties by letting you place cat statues (small statue[my favourite too). But when you right click on the temples(small med and large) you should hear the sound of meowing or purring or something! lol not OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!

Isis was also a main goddess worshipped in egypt as well, whats with her being a sub-diety....she was the mother of Horus or Osiris, I couldnt remember which.

Osiris was also the god of judgement, he decided where you went after you were dead...

Sobek was the god of alligators in the 13th dynasty.

Other than the poorly designed diety part, this game is amazingly addictive...lol

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Seth's Raven

Ubastet
Pleb
posted 06-04-00 12:53 ET (US)     2 / 20       
Isis was Horus's wife and sister. Osiris was th child. Also, why don't we make the boats or sarcofogi for the entombed?
DarthBane
Pleb
posted 06-04-00 13:04 ET (US)     3 / 20       
Ubastet, you got that the wrong way round; Horus was the son who battled Seth after Seth killed his father osiris and scattered his parts all over the desert.

Seth wasn't the god of crocodiles, Sebek/Sobek was. Trust me, Gods are one thing I can talk about aaaall day. And SethsRaven, there were no alligators around the Nile, only crocodiles

Osiris was the god of the underworld after Seth killed him, Ma'at decided what happened to someone after their death, Thoth was the scribe god (he recorded what happened when Ma'at judged a person's deeds), etc etc. I'll find a list detailing 50+ gods

DarthBane
Pleb
posted 06-04-00 13:13 ET (US)     4 / 20       
I would like to read that report, was it done on your PC??

If it is, can you send it to Darth_Bane@btinternet.com

Ubastet
Pleb
posted 06-04-00 13:23 ET (US)     5 / 20       
Sorry, Darth. I typed it in '98 and deleted it there-after.
Different gods were different things at different times. When you find that document please either post the time(s) at which those particular gods were what the document says they were. Also there is often a misunderstanding of the heiroglyphs, so please include the author(s). You can E-mail it to me at:

queen_everything@yahoo.com

or post it here as a reply!

SethsRaven
Pleb
posted 06-04-00 13:32 ET (US)     6 / 20       
If youll read the Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt, by Margaret Bunson, then youll find under the heading Osiris; that he was the Judge of all non-royal egyptians. they had to appear before him in his judgement hall along with his companions the 42 Judges. His is the main deity mentioned in the Book of the Dead.

I meant to say crocodile

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Seth's Raven

[This message has been edited by SethsRaven (edited 06-04-2000).]

Ubastet
Pleb
posted 06-04-00 13:41 ET (US)     7 / 20       
Do you keep that thing on a shelf next to your comp. or something? Goodness, you're almost as obsessed as I am!
ET FLAVIUS
Pleb
posted 06-04-00 14:47 ET (US)     8 / 20       
Hi .. nice thread, Angel Jayhawk...will just love to get in on the discussion.

Egyptain obsession is a way of life with some of us...I have a Book of the Dead handy at all times, and Erman's: Life in Ancient Egypt, also the University collection of J.E.Manchips and Budge's Research Textbooks.

I really love Mark Lehner's The Complete Pyramids too

As for the game..back in the development discussion on the God's feature, the comments indicated that an attempt to make things as close as possible..but not embracing every interpretation would be feasible. It is a game and set dialogue needs to be present thus guarantee that the game will play predictably..with player enjoyment resulting in some fashion.

One of my aspirations is to build a city..in the same lay-out as the actual real-life city...just to say that I am already experience some major desirability problems..and Pharaoh is upset all the time. I just keep remembering.. it's a game first.

I have really enjoyed your discussion..maybe you would like to continue in the special new forums that have been opened.

Angel ET


SethsRaven
Pleb
posted 06-04-00 17:40 ET (US)     9 / 20       
Yes I do!! LOL I have 3 different books setting next to me! One is the aforementioned Encyclopedia, another is a book of historical atlases on ancient egypt, and another is the Manual that came with the game...hehehe everything else is just bean-counters stuff.

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Seth's Raven

[This message has been edited by SethsRaven (edited 06-04-2000).]

Vizier Johnleemk
Pleb
posted 06-05-00 02:49 ET (US)     10 / 20       
I'd say that Bast info is lacking, but the other things are fine. But shouldn't we be talking about Cleo? Nah. Anyway, Bast could have been more. But I don't really care.
You are facing Royal Governer Johnleemk, who invites you to his Palace in North Dashur. He is too busy to see you, but you can make an appointment here.

------------------
The last paragraph above is my sig. Anyway, help me! I'm stuck in North Dashur and I cheated! I can't get over it!

Jayhawk
Eminence Grise
posted 06-05-00 10:49 ET (US)     11 / 20       
Hmmm...thought I heard someone loudly calling my name

Mythology, wonderful subject, quite literally.

As was mentioned briefly before the Egyptian religion spans several thousands of years, in that time a lot of things changed. Gods rose to power and faded away or were 'merged' with other gods.
This makes it a rather tricky thing to follow/summarise.

If memory serves me well, Khnum was the actual god of the Nile (or at least at some stage ) Osiris power did concern the rebirth, i.e. the anual flooding of the Nile (or the seasons) but there were a few more gods invovled in there as well, most of these were pictured with green skin and...how do we put this politely...an excited member

Many gods started out as local Gods, so was Amon the Chief god of Thebes, while Khnum was worshiped in Abu. Ptah was the creator god in the Memphis trinity.

Also many gods had similar duties as they were venerated in different parts of the realms. Ra was a solar god, but so was Horus and Khefer. Ra and Horus combine later in Re-Horakhte, the Lord of the Horizon.

Back to the game.
I think that the deities were chosen for various reasons, some of those being the way they appear in people's perceptions, most people have heard of all the gods of the game.
Most of the miracles that these gods perform, have a game effect that is within a similar range of usefulness, I thin a god was sought to match each of the available effects, rather than picking up gods first and trying to match events to them. This of course is complicated by thee fact that these godsm, the bigger ones, had a less well defined realm of inluence.

Also remember that the game plays through the whole of the Egyptian history, or at least it will once Cleo is released. One of the suggestions made, long before the game was released, was to have gods change, be repleaced as power centers changed, merge with other gods, etc. etc.
However, this would have made it a god building game rather than a city building game.

The Caesar range suffered from similar if less severe problems as th espheres of teh Roman gods are more defined, but surely everyone of us has wondered what happened to Jupiter, their prime god.

Undoubtably, there will be a similar 'problem' in Zues. Let's not call it a problem, let's call it...poetic license

A
ngel
J
ahakemhotep
Have you consulted the Pharaoh FAQs today?

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Homage to thee, Osiris, Lord of Eternity, King of the Gods, whose names are manifold, whose forms are holy, thou being of hidden form in the temples, whose Ka is holy."
-- Book of the Dead (1240 BC)

SethsRaven
Pleb
posted 06-05-00 20:52 ET (US)     12 / 20       
Well Im too much of a tinker to leave things be. I went rummaging through my many wav files and found me self a kitty file...With several edits to the kitty file I mixed it with the wav files for Basts temples, shrines and complexes....hehehe. What I now have is a very nice little wav file that meows in the background while the main voices Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah and go it!

This edited game wav has no negative effects on the general operation of the game.

If you care to have the file, or just want to hear what it sounds like, then do ask for it!

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Seth's Raven

ET FLAVIUS
Pleb
posted 06-05-00 21:07 ET (US)     13 / 20       
That sound nice...but after to times through and 40 odd custom scenarios..I play with the sound off completely most of the time.. In the beginning this got so bad that I would attempt go to sleep with the Pharaoh music still ringing away..even got up a few times to see if I had possibly forgotten to exit the game

Now that take a lot of Pharaoh hours..but it does happen

Angel ET


Ubastet
Pleb
posted 06-06-00 23:09 ET (US)     14 / 20       
I, however, would love to have the file. I understand that we can't have all the gods and that we can't have all the frillies (a frilly is a special object, often unnessecary, that somehow pleases the user; also connected with the color pink and lace) on the gods. I see why we have Osiris, Bast and Ra. But why Ptah? There are so many gods of various and assorted industries! Why did they have to pick the god of creation, Weavers, and linen? And again, what about the cats? We get to go to Bubastis and all we build is a couple of Obelisks!? There is a giant tomb filled with several thousand cat mummies, a whole lot of mastabas, and more rat mummies that can be counted! What's with that?

-Ubastet
SethsRaven
Pleb
posted 06-07-00 01:52 ET (US)     15 / 20       
Ok just email me at ravnlord09@hotmail.com, and Ill send you the file I dont get enough mail as it is..hehehe. So there are rat mummies int the game or is this in reality? (at bubastis that is).

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Seth's Raven

Jayhawk
Eminence Grise
posted 06-07-00 09:35 ET (US)     16 / 20       
Ptah as god of craftsmen and builders is a natural choice for a game where you make money making(crafting) things like jewelry and linnen, I'd say.

Not that strange, they might have choses Imhotep, the deified architect, but he was less known and was mainly involved with building monuments.

Seth for me is the stranger choice, although he's associated with warfare and is the Protector of the Red Land, he's also the personification of evil in later times. Sekhmet as Goddess of War would have been a more logical choice to my mind, but then I didn't write the game

As for mummified cats, we don't do much with mummified ibis od crocodile either

A
ngel
J
ahakemhotep
Have you consulted the Pharaoh FAQs today?

------------------
Homage to thee, Osiris, Lord of Eternity, King of the Gods, whose names are manifold, whose forms are holy, thou being of hidden form in the temples, whose Ka is holy."
-- Book of the Dead (1240 BC)

Ubastet
Pleb
posted 06-07-00 09:51 ET (US)     17 / 20       
True. Raven, I was complaining/arguing that there were no rat mummies in the game, not the other way around. N E ways... That E-mail probably didn't get through; my E-mail here is absoulute sludge. If you don't get it within a few hours please E-mail it to: queen_everything@yahoo.com

Thanx for responding,
-Ubastet

SethsRaven
Pleb
posted 06-07-00 23:07 ET (US)     18 / 20       
mummified crocs? Wouldnt you end up with alot more mummified people than crocs?
And I think they should have used Sekhmet as well, that would have made the use of majour gods even with 2 male and too female...but then if I would have been with the design concept team Id have made other suggestions as well...hehehe

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Seth's Raven

[This message has been edited by SethsRaven (edited 06-07-2000).]

Jayhawk
Eminence Grise
posted 06-08-00 06:45 ET (US)     19 / 20       
I think I saw a crocodile mummy in Kom Ombo, where the large Sobek/Horus double temple is located.
A
ngel
J
ahakemhotep
Have you consulted the Pharaoh FAQs today?

------------------
Homage to thee, Osiris, Lord of Eternity, King of the Gods, whose names are manifold, whose forms are holy, thou being of hidden form in the temples, whose Ka is holy."
-- Book of the Dead (1240 BC)

Nehebkau
Pleb
posted 10-27-14 16:16 ET (US)     20 / 20       
Hello Everyone!

I have an idea about the ancient egyptian gods in the Pharaoh & Cleopatra PC game.

So, we know that these gods in the game:

Main gods:
Osiris
Ra
Ptah
Seth
Bastet

Osiris:
One of the most popular deity in ancient Egypt, so I think that it's right that Osiris is one of the main gods in the game. We know that he is the god of Innundation of the Nile, so he can improve the Inundation to boost fertility of your growing crops, and can double your harvests if especially pleased, and he can also send stop your crops from growing or with hold the annual flooding. So Osiris is the god of fertility in this game, but primary he is known as god of dead, even though he can god of fertility in the ancient Egyptian religion. So in my opinion it would better that one or two of his blessings connect with the Innundation of the Nile, and one or two of his blessings connect with the afterlife. When he is angry, his curses connect with these things.

It would be more exciting that the players could donate for him for example some grain, and build a djed pillar to honor him. One of the monuments could be "tomb of Osiris", where the people could celebrate his rebirth every year.

Ra:
Ra was also one of the most popular deity, who is creator and father of the gods, so that's correct that he is one of the main deity in the Pharaoh city builder game. In the game he can grow your fame in the Kingdom and can provide a 12 month bonus of your trading partners paying 1 1/2 times the going rate. But primary he is a solar deity, and this aspect is missing in the game. He is also creator god, who repeats the creation every day, take charge of life on Earth's rebirth and gives light and warm to the creatures. So as a sun- and creator god, he could change the weather and helping the annual regeneration of nature. Finally as the god of Kingdom, he could protect your reign (give a long life to your rule) and as a god of the Truth, he could preserve people's satisfaction in all Kingdom.

When he is angry, the nature start to die, your reign could be shorter and labile and he make dissatisfied the people.

It would be more exciting that the players could donate for him some beer, incense (luxury good) or possibly beef and and sweet-scented flowers (luxury good --> parfume)

The obelisk could build to his glory.

Ptah
He is creator god of Memphis and the egyptians worshipped him throughout the country, so that he is one of the main gods in the game is ok. In the game he can fill a storage yard with goods or raw materials for industry. He can give your weavers, jewelers or shipwrights raw materials to work with.

Ptah is the god of craftsman and arts, so he could help to the building monuments (accelerate the construction, help to make the best quality in the industrial products) and growing the industrial production. And because Ptah "He who listen to the prayers" he could calm down the people when they have a problem and growing their creativity to solve their trouble. I think it would better than his game functions.

When he is angry, the industrial production is less and worse quality, and the people's moody hopeless in their life --> dissatisfaction.

It would be more exciting that the players could donate for him possibly oil, offering the statue about him, or plant his sacred tree, Moringa.

Seth

Seth is one of the "Great gods" of Egypt, so he is the one of main deities of Egypt. Because he is the Lord of the desert, he could cause sandstorm and as the stormgod he could give a storm when he is angry or give a nice day, if he is satisfied. As the god of foreign countries, he supervised the trade with them too. His military function is correct in the game I think.

When he is angry, ha cause sandstorm, the tradeways will be closed or worse tradeprice to sell and destruction the military buildings and units like in the game.

It would be more exciting that the players could donate for him meat of the wild desert animals, possibly beer and parfumes.

Bast
Bast is one of the popular deity in Ancient Egypt, and one of the most important goddess, so as a main deity is right in the game, I think. She is protector of the pregnant woman, so she could growing the town population and protecting against the illnesses. But when she is angry, she become Sakhmet, who brings epidemic to the city and defeats in the battle.

It would be more exciting that the players could donate for her a cat mummies, parfumes and sistrum, a sacred instrument of her.


So what do you think these thinks? Tomorrow I will write my ideas about the lesser gods in the Pharaoh game.
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