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Caesar IV Heaven » Forums » Pharaoh: Game Help » Immortal Hetep and a question about health
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Topic Subject:Immortal Hetep and a question about health
andib2n
Pleb
posted 03-05-19 22:02 ET (US)         
After finishing Hetep in 35 years and 8 months with exact 12000 population (could be finished some months earlier with more stone's mansons to polish the pyramids), I'm sick with fast city building. Inspired by Brugle's immortal Iunet, I like to try another style of city building: build a long live city (immortal was too high for the first try). I chosed Hetep, because it is the last city I built. So the mission is to build "a long live" Hetep - atleast for 1000 years.

The Plan:

I decided to start from the beginning using the same layout from fast Hetep with some changes:

* Made 4 housings blocks a little bigger and added 1 new block (9 total), so in the end the city would have 12 Palatial Estates (PE), 10 Stately Manors (SM), 106 Fancy Residences (FR), 13 Spacious Residences and 15 Spacious Appartements for total 15624 People.

* No need to build the Pyramids fast: so only 5 Brickworks (most Bricks would come from import and gifts), 3 Potters (extra potteries could be imported) and 6 Claypits. The fast Hetep had 34 Brickworks, 6 Potters and 28 Claypits!! In this old big industrial block I would place the new housing block.

# 3 extra Breweries (total 10) to produce enough Beer for own consumption without import. Actually 9 Breweries would be enough.

* I would keep 18 Papyrus Makers supported by 4 Reed Gatherers. 12 Lybraries and 9 Schools comsumpt in worst case (12 walk/year) 7920 Papyrus, which can be produced by 14 Papyrus Makers, so 18 more than enough. I would also keep 4 Weavers and 1 Jewelry but only 1 Woodcutter now.

# And of course more culture buildings to keep the CR80 and minor changes here and there

Additional rules:

* Hard difficulty
* No rescue fund
* Meet the mission's goals: CR80 and 3 Monuments (32 Weapons as burial good in a SY, ready to dispatch)
* No Blessing
* No culture park (all walkers from culture's buildings and venues will be in housing blocks or go inside housing blocks using forced walk)
* No deletion (except roads, roadblocks, gardens and wells)
* All roads connected

The Result:

So I started the mission and it's in 250th Year now. I let the city run with 100% speed without intervention since 120th year except dispatching good for request (immediately, without stockpiling). I ignored the troop's request (1 month time to dispatch troops via water was ridiculous).

The last worker shortage's issue was -76 worker. I set Military (70 workers) as the last priority and Entertainment as 8th, so 6 less workers from 532 was not a big problem. And the last unemployment's issue was 8% unemployment.

So far so good, but I dislike one thing: 19 Ghosts are in the City now (250th Year). I think I can survive the target of 1000 Years, but longer I don't think so.

A Question:

I read again the topic "Improved Immortal Iunet" and found, the city can be immortal, if the city has atleast 23931 Population (excellent Health) or 17676 Population (very good Health). Wow... so big!

I'm not ready to build 24k city now but 18k city is okay (for example I could add 2 blocks of Spacious Appartements in empty southwest Landmass and turn some Fancy Residences to Stately Manors). The question is, how can I lower the city health from excellent to very good but maintain CR80 (90% Phisician's Coverage and 60% Mortuary's Coverage)? Is it possible?
AuthorReplies:
evil_live_vile
Pleb
posted 03-06-19 05:11 ET (US)     1 / 4       
go inside housing blocks using forced walk
I assume you mean destination walkers?
So far so good, but I dislike one thing: 19 Ghosts are in the City now (250th Year). I think I can survive the target of 1000 Years, but longer I don't think so.
In a 15k+ city, I think that ghost rate should be fine for a long time. Just think, in 1000 years you'll probably have under 80 ghosts. Assuming a 30% worker percentage, that's only a loss of 24 workers due to ghosts after 1000 years.
The question is, how can I lower the city health from excellent to very good but maintain CR80 (90% Phisician's Coverage and 60% Mortuary's Coverage)? Is it possible?
The factors which impact health are physician coverage, choice of temple complex/altars and the proportion of population receiving food (other than those events which specifically trigger health issues). I don't think Bast's Altar of Isis affects health in large cities but I wouldn't build it anyway unless you are going for an ascetic effect.

Otherwise a larger number of crude and sturdy huts can reduce your health rate while still maintaining high levels of physician coverage.

Eagles may soar, but weasels do not get sucked into jet engines
Two Eskimos sitting in a kayak were chilly, so they lit a fire in the craft. Unsurprisingly it sank, Proving once again that you can't have your kayak and heat it too
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 03-06-19 09:58 ET (US)     2 / 4       
(immortal was too high for the first try). I chosed Hetep
Many players use words like "immortal" for cities that require intervention (such as satisfying requests), but I prefer to reserve it for cities that do not.
and 15 Spacious Appartements for total 15624 People
Not that it matters, but I'm a little surprised you didn't make the poorest house a residence.
No deletion (except roads, roadblocks, gardens and wells)
I find it more fun to not delete anything I build (so in Hetepsenusret, the only deletions would be some of the initial roads and perhaps a tree or two).
7920 Papyrus, which can be produced by 14 Papyrus Makers ... All roads connected
I assume that some schools and libraries will be far from papyrus makers, so with all road connected, 14 papyrus makes will not make 7920 papyrus. If the routes taken by teachers and librarians aren't too long, I wouldn't be surprised if 18 papyrus makers are not enough to keep all schools and libraries well supplied (although they probably will be enough to keep the houses covered when Bast's temple complex exists). However...
all walkers from culture's buildings and venues will be in housing blocks or go inside housing blocks using forced walk
If the forced walks are long, the papyrus consumption may be low enough so that the schools and librarians will be kept well supplied.

When I built my Improved Immortal Iunet, one of my rules was that teachers, librarians, embalmers, and senet players would not take long (forced) walks, to make consumption of goods by schools, library, embalmer, and senet house reasonable.

I enjoy a collections of some culture buildings (such as a set of bandstands) beside a housing block, but your preferences appear to be different.
1 month time to dispatch troops via water was ridiculous
It doesn't take long to dispatch some warships.
Assuming a 30% worker percentage
With excellent city health and 23.3% scribes, the worker percentage is about 20%.
The factors which impact health are physician coverage, choice of temple complex/altars and the proportion of population receiving food
Other things affecting city health include mortuary coverage and proportion of people who eat 2 foods. Other housing changes may affect city health.

I don't know exactly how city health is calculated. Before building Improved Immortal Iunet, I built a sandbox mission with the houses I wanted, and fiddled with the number of houses getting physician and mortuary coverage until I found a combination which gave good city health and could produce Culture 65. You may be able to do the same with your planned houses (or a fraction of them), very good city health, and Culture 80.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 03-06-2019 @ 11:29 AM).]

andib2n
Pleb
posted 03-10-19 19:26 ET (US)     3 / 4       
Thanks for replies
go inside housing blocks using forced walk
I assume you mean destination walkers?
Yes.
In a 15k+ city, I think that ghost rate should be fine for a long time. Just think, in 1000 years you'll probably have under 80 ghosts. Assuming a 30% worker percentage, that's only a loss of 24 workers due to ghosts after 1000 years.
I know I'll survive the target of 1000 Years. But now, I want more
and 15 Spacious Appartements for total 15624 People
Not that it matters, but I'm a little surprised you didn't make the poorest house a residence.
The Spacious Apartments are on other side of Nile -> no education's building there to help distribution of papyrus a bit
7920 Papyrus, which can be produced by 14 Papyrus Makers ... All roads connected
I assume that some schools and libraries will be far from papyrus makers, so with all road connected, 14 papyrus makes will not make 7920 papyrus. If the routes taken by teachers and librarians aren't too long, I wouldn't be surprised if 18 papyrus makers are not enough to keep all schools and libraries well supplied (although they probably will be enough to keep the houses covered when Bast's temple complex exists).
You are right. I noticed it around 100th Year (when city had all libraries and schools), there was 0 Papyrus in SY and all cartpushers from Papyrus Makers went to Schools or Libraries, so 3 extra SYs (2 filled with straw, 1 filled with limestones) were worthless and I also noticed 1 Library (the furthest) ran out Papyrus.
After I set to import Papyrus (to keep 2000), they started to send Papyrus to the nearby SY. I forgot to check Papyrus import yearly, and I only made a save every 50 years after 150th year. The city imported 1300 Papyrus in 150th year, 600 in 200th year and 1300 in 250th year -> maybe 1500 is the maximum.
I don't think 3 extra Papyrus Makers without import can help. Some Papyrus, those are always available in a SY, are important, so cartpushers from 3 other SYs can help to distribute them.
all walkers from culture's buildings and venues will be in housing blocks or go inside housing blocks using forced walk
If the forced walks are long, the papyrus consumption may be low enough so that the schools and librarians will be kept well supplied.

When I built my Improved Immortal Iunet, one of my rules was that teachers, librarians, embalmers, and senet players would not take long (forced) walks, to make consumption of goods by schools, library, embalmer, and senet house reasonable.

I enjoy a collections of some culture buildings (such as a set of bandstands) beside a housing block, but your preferences appear to be different.
There are only 9 buildings used forced walk in 2 groups:
* 1st group (pass all PEs and 3 FRs) -> 1 School (the first School in the city) 1 Mortuary, 1 Bazaar (main purpose to sell Lux and imported Meat), 1 Zoo and 1 Temple (for 3rd type of God's access)
* 2nd group (pass all houses in 4 housing blocks) -> 1 Water Supply, 1 Physician, 1 Mortuary and 1 Temple Complex. I really like that these buildings (except Mortuary, that was added later) could help these 4 blocks in their early state (I just had to place a Firehouse, an Apothecary and a Bazaar in each block, and houses can envolve to cottage, and no worry about disease when they didn't get enough food)

For CR80 and 15624 People (up to 15750) the city needs 11 Pavilions and 7 Bandstands. These 18 venues are fit in 9 Blocks (7 blocks have a Pavilion and a Bandstand, 2 blocks have 2 Pavilions)
1 month time to dispatch troops via water was ridiculous
It doesn't take long to dispatch some warships.
Not Warships, but troops in transport ships. Do you mean I can send warships instead? Oye, I don't know about this.

Anyway, not to send troops results only -2 KR. And there are 3 other recurring requests, those bring KR back to 100. Is there a mod to turn off these recurring requests?
The factors which impact health are physician coverage, choice of temple complex/altars and the proportion of population receiving food (other than those events which specifically trigger health issues). I don't think Bast's Altar of Isis affects health in large cities but I wouldn't build it anyway unless you are going for an ascetic effect.
I didn't build Bast's Altar of Isis.
I made a test.
First I replaced the Physician with a Mortuary in Spacious Residences (SR) Block to reduce Physician's coverage to excellent. Then I set the bazaar in Spacious Apartments Block not to buy food. Result: City Health was still excellent.
I set then the bazzar in SR-Block not to buy food. And it worked: City Health's was very good.

But don't like the idea not to give some people food. It's not right, especially in "long live" city
Other things affecting city health include mortuary coverage and proportion of people who eat 2 foods. Other housing changes may affect city health.

I don't know exactly how city health is calculated. Before building Improved Immortal Iunet, I built a sandbox mission with the houses I wanted, and fiddled with the number of houses getting physician and mortuary coverage until I found a combination which gave good city health and could produce Culture 65. You may be able to do the same with your planned houses (or a fraction of them), very good city health, and Culture 80.
For CR80, Physician Coverage must be 90% and Mortuary Coverage 60%.

Proportion of people who eat 2 foods. Interesting, I will try this, I can set the Bazaars in 3 blocks to sell only 1 type of food.
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 03-11-19 06:42 ET (US)     4 / 4       
Do you mean I can send warships instead?
Yes. I always send warships when waterborne troops are requested.
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