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Caesar IV Heaven » Forums » Emperor: Scenario Design Palace » Empire Map question
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Topic Subject:Empire Map question
Sajuuk
Pleb
posted 11-08-15 06:55 ET (US)         
Hi there.

I'm building a custom campaign and have a question: do I need to create a whole empire map for each mission in my campaign? I do not see how I'm able to make a campaign using only a single empire map, as new cities are built which don't become available until the player is actually playing them in the campaign. EDIT: I found the method to do it. Basically, all the "undiscovered" player cities are set to be hidden and an event fires in the previous mission to make it available. Usually this event is just some ridiculously timed event that will never fire: victory of the mission causes unfired events to be fired, making the next mission's city to be visible.

Also, at the same time, I don't know how to place the footprints of Great Walls, because every time I place them, they appear in a corrupted format (they appear normally, but after using the "refresh terrain" button, they corrupt), which forces me to have to clear the whole footprint, just to go and replace it with another layout (or the same layout). Should these be placed last? EDIT: Remade the map so it used the same footprint as that of Liangzhou (campaign mission) and it hasn't corrupted.

Thanks.

[This message has been edited by Sajuuk (edited 11-09-2015 @ 01:31 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Gweilo
Angel
posted 11-09-15 06:19 ET (US)     1 / 23       
I don't think it's always true that "victory of the mission causes unfired events to be fired". It depends on what those events trigger was. What I do to be safe is to script events to fire at the 'mission completion' frequency. I like to do that to prepare cities on the empire map for the next mission the player is about to start.

Expand your fun by downloading free custom campaigns for Emperor: Rise of the Middle Kingdom.
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[This message has been edited by Gweilo (edited 11-09-2015 @ 06:19 AM).]

Sajuuk
Pleb
posted 11-09-15 07:10 ET (US)     2 / 23       
I don't think it's always true that "victory of the mission causes unfired events to be fired". It depends on what those events trigger was. What I do to be safe is to script events to fire at the 'mission completion' frequency. I like to do that to prepare cities on the empire map for the next mission the player is about to start.
Oh, I didn't realise that there was a frequency option to trigger events at the completion of a mission. I'll need to look at that one.

Though the event I did schedule to fire (city appears 100 years after mission start) did seem to trigger even without using the "On mission completion" frequency.

Thanks! I'm building a campaign and trying to understand the events system (I'm sad that we can't trigger our own outcomes to requests, oh well). I do like how easy it is to develop campaigns though!
Gweilo
Angel
posted 11-09-15 13:09 ET (US)     3 / 23       
Good to hear you are designing custom campaigns for this great game! Coming late to the party is better than not coming at all. :P

I would advise you to look through my old posts here in the Scenario Design forum. Over the years I have tried to post all my findings on bugs, limitations, and other 'features' of the Campaign Creator that were not covered in the Campaign Creator pdf file that comes with the game. (note that document is worth reading, however.)

Expand your fun by downloading free custom campaigns for Emperor: Rise of the Middle Kingdom.
Visit Zeus Heaven to expand your knowledge of Zeus and Poseidon.

[This message has been edited by Gweilo (edited 11-09-2015 @ 01:09 PM).]

Sajuuk
Pleb
posted 11-09-15 14:05 ET (US)     4 / 23       
I would advise you to look through my old posts here in the Scenario Design forum. Over the years I have tried to post all my findings on bugs, limitations, and other 'features' of the Campaign Creator that were not covered in the Campaign Creator pdf file that comes with the game. (note that document is worth reading, however.)
I totally agree. The manual is good, but it fails to mention a lot of things and doesn't discuss the limitations that the system has. I'll almost certainly be reading lots of posts from here to better understand the system!

Ironically enough, the campaign I'm making is getting close to being somewhat historically accurate haha (in the sense that cities are in their historical location where possible, but the events happen at a non-historical time :P)
Gweilo
Angel
posted 11-10-15 05:23 ET (US)     5 / 23       
If your custom campaign has any kind of military activity scripted on the empire map and you want to use the military request events, be sure to read this thread:

http://caesar3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/caeforumscgi/display.cgi?action=ct&f=23,4586,,all

I had to rebuild a campaign from scratch once after I discovered the bug documented in that post.

Expand your fun by downloading free custom campaigns for Emperor: Rise of the Middle Kingdom.
Visit Zeus Heaven to expand your knowledge of Zeus and Poseidon.
Sajuuk
Pleb
posted 11-10-15 05:27 ET (US)     6 / 23       
If your custom campaign has any kind of military activity scripted on the empire map and you want to use the military request events, be sure to read this thread:

http://caesar3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/caeforumscgi/display.cgi?action=ct&f=23,4586,,all

I had to rebuild a campaign from scratch once after I discovered the bug documented in that post.
I just read that post, thanks very much for warning me of this. Unfortunately, the first city I placed on the map was the player home city, so I won't be able to script military requests into the campaign. I was considering getting a northern border city to request military aid, but after having read that post, I'll be skipping that I think.

The first mission is light on military, but further missions are more about defence from invasions (with a couple requiring a vassal). One of the missions is a timed mission and another is survival.

I have run into a minor bug where I can't get one of my cities to sell Jade, it just keeps trying to sell Carved Jade instead. Though I managed to clear out a minor bug with cities not updating their sell/buy lists by restarting the campaign (I'm just using the "I win again" cheat to get through to specific missions), I still cannot get a friendly city to sell Jade, despite it being selected in their "Sells" list.

Is this a bug or should I just place a marker for some city known to sell Jade (eg Kashgar) and which only appears in the mission in question?

[This message has been edited by Sajuuk (edited 11-10-2015 @ 05:29 AM).]

Gweilo
Angel
posted 11-10-15 17:13 ET (US)     7 / 23       
Does the jade even show up as a commodity the city is trading? Or does it show up, but when you place the trade station, they won't sell it? If the later, be sure you have your price set to buy at their sell price.

Expand your fun by downloading free custom campaigns for Emperor: Rise of the Middle Kingdom.
Visit Zeus Heaven to expand your knowledge of Zeus and Poseidon.
Sajuuk
Pleb
posted 11-11-15 02:35 ET (US)     8 / 23       
Does the jade even show up as a commodity the city is trading? Or does it show up, but when you place the trade station, they won't sell it? If the later, be sure you have your price set to buy at their sell price.
Nope, it doesn't appear at all, it just gets replaced by the Carved Jade, though it could have been that the trading cities weren't updating properly.

I did restart the whole campaign (and will need to do so again, currently playtesting to try and work out what needs to be changed to improve the campaign) to make the trading items update (since they didn't seem to be updating properly) so we'll see if that fixes that bug

Also, my military troop request that I didn't delete fired and I saw what you mean by it just selecting the first city placed. I was playing the home city and Daxingcheng (the requestor) thought I was attacking them (lol). I'll probably change that to a recurring request for weapons instead.

I really like this campaign. It has many twists and, in general terms, is economically difficult, but is quite possible. When I've fully completed the campaign (very soon), I'll put it up on the downloads area and ask for people to give suggestions/feedback for ways that I can improve it (as there's certainly things I need to change with community input).

EDIT: It looks like I've run into a small bug with continuation monuments relating to the Great Wall. Not sure what that's about. For some reason, when the mission starts, the monument will be complete as it should be, but if you quit/reload, the monument reverts to its unbuilt state and the tail ends (the bits already completed) become the Earthen Great Wall instead. Right clicking the monument while this happens causes a crash. It seems that the solution is to ignore the monument and not reload the game while doing the last mission of the campaign. That will need to be tested by others. - Ignore. The bug was caused by me failing to change the game era to CE, it was on BCE by mistake. Whoops! :P

EDIT2: My campaign is complete! I need to make a tweak or two and then I'll submit it to the downloads area this weekend. I also need to include narrated voice overs for the briefings/victory stuff as well, bit hard since they need to be edited and tested repeatedly.

[This message has been edited by Sajuuk (edited 11-11-2015 @ 10:56 AM).]

Gweilo
Angel
posted 11-11-15 15:15 ET (US)     9 / 23       
The voice overs are optional, you know that right? I toyed with the idea of creating them, but then rejected it do to the size it adds to the download, and the difficulty some players have installing them correctly.

Looking forward to trying your campaign!

Expand your fun by downloading free custom campaigns for Emperor: Rise of the Middle Kingdom.
Visit Zeus Heaven to expand your knowledge of Zeus and Poseidon.
Sajuuk
Pleb
posted 11-11-15 16:23 ET (US)     10 / 23       
The voice overs are optional, you know that right? I toyed with the idea of creating them, but then rejected it do to the size it adds to the download, and the difficulty some players have installing them correctly.

Looking forward to trying your campaign!
Yeah, I know the voice overs are optional, but it doesn't feel right seeing the briefing screen with no music. If I wanted to make the briefing play music, with no speech, I could just create 5 second silence tracks, named the way expected by the game, simply to make the game play the mission briefing music :P

I worked out why my Jade event wasn't working as well. It's because I selected "Demand increase": my city building experience of Pharaoh meant that I thought this would provide the good, but it's different in Emperor. Demand refers to buying, whereas Supply refers to selling. Should've read the manual in depth :P

For now, I'm probably just going to create a 5 second blank mp3 and duplicate it multiple times for all the missions, simply for the music to be played appropriately. It should be up this weekend, hopefully it will be enjoyable!
Sajuuk
Pleb
posted 11-12-15 09:31 ET (US)     11 / 23       
The campaign has been submitted to the downloads system. I will need to update description, as I failed to mention that a text file was included with spoilers (hints and tips from me) and that people should not read this unless they are struggling to complete a mission.
Gweilo
Angel
posted 11-12-15 15:17 ET (US)     12 / 23       
Right now your campaign is sitting in my approval queue. If I remember right, you can still see it and update it with a new download before I approve it. Let me know if you can do that. If you can't see it to update it, would you prefer that I just reject it? Then you can submit it from scratch with any additional notes you want. Let me know.

Expand your fun by downloading free custom campaigns for Emperor: Rise of the Middle Kingdom.
Visit Zeus Heaven to expand your knowledge of Zeus and Poseidon.

[This message has been edited by Gweilo (edited 11-12-2015 @ 03:34 PM).]

Sajuuk
Pleb
posted 11-12-15 16:25 ET (US)     13 / 23       
Right now your campaign is sitting in my approval queue. If I remember right, you can still see it and update it with a new download before I approve it. Let me know if you can do that. If you can't see it to update it, would you prefer that I just reject it? Then you can submit it from scratch with any additional notes you want. Let me know.
Unfortunately, I'm not able to see it: I tried going to the download page using the id, but it just said it's not visible. I can just add in the correction after it's been approved, not sure how many people will see the campaign anyway.
Gweilo
Angel
posted 11-12-15 16:40 ET (US)     14 / 23       
Ok, I just approved it.

Expand your fun by downloading free custom campaigns for Emperor: Rise of the Middle Kingdom.
Visit Zeus Heaven to expand your knowledge of Zeus and Poseidon.
Sajuuk
Pleb
posted 11-13-15 06:14 ET (US)     15 / 23       
Thanks! Made the minor addition, so everything's good to go

I'm not sure if it's possible, but if a news post could be made to draw attention to the campaign, I'd really appreciate it. But I'll understand if it's not possible to do that

[This message has been edited by Sajuuk (edited 11-13-2015 @ 06:21 AM).]

Gweilo
Angel
posted 11-15-15 11:37 ET (US)     16 / 23       
I'm about to go on a 2 week vacation, but I do intend on playing your campaign when I get back. I'll leave a review afterwards.

Expand your fun by downloading free custom campaigns for Emperor: Rise of the Middle Kingdom.
Visit Zeus Heaven to expand your knowledge of Zeus and Poseidon.
Sajuuk
Pleb
posted 11-15-15 11:45 ET (US)     17 / 23       
Okay, awesome! Hope you enjoy the vacation
Sajuuk
Pleb
posted 12-03-15 11:50 ET (US)     18 / 23       
Yo! I went back to my "Power of the Tang" campaign in the editor and made a few tweaks for later. But I won't make the updated version available on the download until after it's been reviewed. One of the changes involves a new map for one of the missions, but I won't reveal more here
Gweilo
Angel
posted 12-04-15 14:19 ET (US)     19 / 23       
I've started playing it. Finished mission 1 last night. I may finish it in a week or so.

Expand your fun by downloading free custom campaigns for Emperor: Rise of the Middle Kingdom.
Visit Zeus Heaven to expand your knowledge of Zeus and Poseidon.
Sajuuk
Pleb
posted 12-04-15 14:44 ET (US)     20 / 23       
I've started playing it. Finished mission 1 last night. I may finish it in a week or so.
Cool. I'll probably be quite busy for the next week anyway, so it works out quite well. :P
Gweilo
Angel
posted 12-04-15 15:35 ET (US)     21 / 23       
If you really think you're going to put in a new map to update the campaign, I may leave off making a formal review, because a new map is quite a drastic change. I'd prefer to replay it entirely with the new map there before making a formal review.

However, I can give you commentary feedback from my play through.

Expand your fun by downloading free custom campaigns for Emperor: Rise of the Middle Kingdom.
Visit Zeus Heaven to expand your knowledge of Zeus and Poseidon.
Gweilo
Angel
posted 12-04-15 22:35 ET (US)     22 / 23       
Sajuuk, I emailed you with some gameplay comments for your campaign.

Expand your fun by downloading free custom campaigns for Emperor: Rise of the Middle Kingdom.
Visit Zeus Heaven to expand your knowledge of Zeus and Poseidon.
Sajuuk
Pleb
posted 12-05-15 12:28 ET (US)     23 / 23       
Sajuuk, I emailed you with some gameplay comments for your campaign.
Thanks! I've just replied to your email. In regards to the new map: I'm not sure yet if the new map will be used. I wanted to make a change, since I don't think the Kaicheng map currently in the campaign "fits" the Empire Map depiction.

I'll have to obviously play-test that mission with the new map to see if it works out and if the mission can be completed with it.
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