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Caesar IV Heaven » Forums » Caesar III: Game Help » Population suddenly leaves homes in Mediolanum
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Topic Subject:Population suddenly leaves homes in Mediolanum
pappo46
Pleb
posted 12-16-18 11:01 ET (US)         
So I was playing the Mediolanum mission. I was following the YouTube video from GamerZakh as an example.
All was going good. Population was around 2000, all were happy. Lots of food, money, religion, schools etc.. Pottery was just coming in and furniture also.

All of a sudden all the people just left the housing. Mass exodus.

I have no clue to what caused it. Anyone else seen this kind of mass exodus ?

thanks in advance for any help.
AuthorReplies:
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 12-16-18 15:47 ET (US)     1 / 23       
Hi pappo46. If I haven't said it before, welcome to Caesar III Heaven.

There are 4 things I can think of that can cause a mass exodus. One is accidentally deleting a large number of houses, but you'd probably know if you did that.

Another is houses disappearing because the road near them does not have a route (that immigrants could take) from the entry point. For example, you might have blocked the route by building a wall. In this case, a lot of people would disappear simultaneously.

If the population drop happened a little more gradually, then the problem is probably emigration, either because houses devolve (perhaps because something ran out) or city sentiment is too low. If emigrants are dragging a bag, they are probably from a devolved house. If emigrants are pulling a cart, city sentiment is probably bad.

You should try to determine the problem shortly after the population begins to drop, since the dropping population can cause other problems. Load a saved game from around the time the problem first occurred, and try to figure out the cause. Let us know how you do.
pappo46
Pleb
posted 12-16-18 19:30 ET (US)     2 / 23       
Brugle - Thank you for the reply.
On the four things you mentioned.
1. I did not delete any houses.

2. I am not sure I understand what you mean by blocking the route from the entry point. Do you mean the part of the map where new people enter? I thought it was ok to cut that road because people will still come in.

3. They all just left dragging a bag. The houses, in the entire 6x12 block just all devolved with 10 seconds.

It did cause many problems. Most of my industry slowed down or stopped due to lack of employees. Fortunately my granary's were all full, I had 19000 money, and 6 oracles so the Gods stayed happy, but I don't think they will for long. All the temples are without employees.

I will check on the route once I get more information from you.

Thank you again for your assistance.
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 12-16-18 21:49 ET (US)     3 / 23       
I am not sure I understand what you mean by blocking the route from the entry point. Do you mean the part of the map where new people enter? I thought it was ok to cut that road because people will still come in.
It is OK to cut the road, since immigrants can walk over bare ground. It is not OK to block the route (so that an immigrant could not get in).
They all just left dragging a bag.
Then probably their houses devolved. Do you have a saved game from around the time the problem occurred?

If you don't have a saved game, maybe you can figure out what happened by looking at how far the houses devolved. If they devolved down to small tents, the houses probably lost water--maybe an aqueduct was cut. If they devolved down to large tents, they probably lost food. If they devolved down to small shacks, they probably lost religious access. Etc.

Next time, don't let the problem get this bad. As soon as the population starts to drop, pause the game and determine why--clicking on a house that is about to devolve might tell you.
6 oracles so the Gods stayed happy, but I don't think they will for long
With 6 oracles, the gods should still be happy (unless there is one god with fewer temples than all the others).
pappo46
Pleb
posted 12-18-18 19:46 ET (US)     4 / 23       
Again thanks for the advice. I replayed the mission and the de-evolution occurred again about the same time.

They devolved down to small shacks.
I will pause next time and check houses for food, and check religious status.

Would you tell me how I can upload my saved city file in this forum post?
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 12-18-18 20:12 ET (US)     5 / 23       
I replayed the mission and the de-evolution occurred again about the same time.
Good. Did you click on a house that had just devolved for the first time (or even better, one that was about to devolve for the first time) and see what the problem was?

If not, do you have a saved game from not too long before the devolution begins? If so, let it run until houses start to devolve and click on them to see why.

One of those suggestions should help you find the problem. Please try them. If they don't help, tell us what you did.

You could submit a file in our Downloads, but it takes a while (maybe a day or more) for a submitted file to be approved. Or, you could send a saved game to the address in my profile (preferably one from shortly before the devolution starts), mentioning C3 in the email title, and I'll take a look at it when I get a chance, but I don't recommend this--I recommend trying one of the suggestions above.
Serrataur
Pleb
posted 12-19-18 03:21 ET (US)     6 / 23       
It's just a suggestion but check your labour allocation priorities so that water services are always fully manned.
because if the fountains fail it could be catastrophic.

I generally have 1 Prefects 2 Engineers 3 Water Services.
jaroslav80
Pleb
posted 12-19-18 10:55 ET (US)     7 / 23       
According to his description of problem "devolved to small shacks" I guess the priest wasn't there for too long near that houses.
Good religion priority is just below water and prefectures. And he said all temples were without workers.
pappo46
Pleb
posted 12-19-18 20:43 ET (US)     8 / 23       
I submitted my city into the Scenarios section of the Downloads area. If that was the wrong place to download to, please let me know.

The zip file name is "Mediolanum after devolution.zip"

I look forward to your analysis of where I went wrong. I appreciate everyone's help.

[This message has been edited by pappo46 (edited 12-19-2018 @ 08:45 PM).]

Heleen
Pleb
posted 12-20-18 02:14 ET (US)     9 / 23       
I haven't downloaded the file, but judging from the title it's a save from after the devolution, right? That might already be very helpful (as I said, I haven't looked at it), but if you happen to have a save from just before it started, that usually gives more information, as people can see it as it happens. (I might come back after I saw the file - I'm not a particularly good player, but I am quite curious now ;-))

(Btw, since you asked: 'scenarios' is for when people designed a new scenario/mission for others to play. I think files like yours should be in the miscellaneous section. No matter though, as the files have to be approved first, I'm sure a friendly mod will put it in the right section for you.)

[This message has been edited by Heleen (edited 12-20-2018 @ 02:34 AM).]

trolgu
Pleb
posted 12-20-18 02:36 ET (US)     10 / 23       
Hi pappo46,

Have you noticed that the fountains near the granaries are dry? Have you moved the reservoir?
Because of the lack of manpower, there are no more priests now.
M Cicero
Pleb
posted 12-20-18 02:50 ET (US)     11 / 23       
Your fountains on one side of the block are too far from the reservoir. I'm guessing that is where the problem started.

Then after that, your city didn't have enough employees, so more houses devolved from lack of services. Obviously, this only makes your labour problems worse.

Your city is now short by almost 600 employees. Your temples have no labour, so everything has devolved down to small shacks (or lower).

These sort of things can escalate quickly if not taken care of. Something to watch out for!
Heleen
Pleb
posted 12-20-18 03:51 ET (US)     12 / 23       
OK, I saw the save file. If you use the water overlay, you can see that the fountains of the north-western part of your loop doesn't have pipe access. I'm guessing you moved a reservoir? The rest, I think, came only after part of the houses lost water access. This would have caused a massive labour shortage. Even without giving the dry fountains pipe access, you can see if you prioritise labour for religion, entertainment and schools, they lower part of the houses immediately start evolving again. If you move a reservoir closer so the upper loop has clean water again, I think they will soon follow, too.

Does this help at all? Let us know if this solves your problem.

Edit: *slaps own head* note to self: refresh thread first before posting new message. Well then. At least you got a second and third opinion out of it, lol.

BTW: is that third housing row intentional? I know there are ways to kind of force houses to merge to 2x2 ones so all of them get access to a certain walker, but as I said I'm not a very advanced player so I'm probably seeing a problem where there is actually a good reason to build like this. I just wondered about it, as they don't get access to certain services (the market obviously being the most important) right now.

[This message has been edited by Heleen (edited 12-20-2018 @ 04:04 AM).]

Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 12-20-18 08:25 ET (US)     13 / 23       
I look forward to your analysis of where I went wrong.
Unless you moved the reservoir too far away from the fountains (which doesn't seem very likely), your city doesn't tell us that, since its problems were caused by the devolution but doesn't tell us why the devolution occurred.

As I have already said, you need to click on a house that is just starting to devolve to see why. If you are too lazy to do that, send us or submit a saved game from shortly before the devolution occurs so one of us can do that.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 12-20-2018 @ 08:27 AM).]

pappo46
Pleb
posted 12-20-18 10:04 ET (US)     14 / 23       
Heleen - The third row housing was my attempt at trying out a new housing block I saw on a YouTube video from GamerZakh.
Thank you for the information on downloading. I will download to the miscellaneous section in the future.

M Cicero - Thanks for noticing the water issue. I will correct that. I did move the reservoir to add farms, and that may have been the act that precipitated the devolution.

Brugle - I appreciate all the help you have given me, and I have observed that you are a C3 expert, but I do take offense at you calling me lazy. I would have gladly sent a saved file of that time and clicked a house just as it devolved. My only option was to click a house, on the sav file I sent in, which was after they changed.
If you have a way for me to go back in time in a C3 mission, I will be happy to give you what you suggested.
Brugle
HG Alumnus
posted 12-20-18 11:07 ET (US)     15 / 23       
I do take offense at you calling me lazy
I am sorry. I don't consider "lazy" to be much of a criticism, since I am quite lazy.
If you have a way for me to go back in time in a C3 mission, I will be happy to give you what you suggested.
In reply #4, you said "I replayed the mission and the de-evolution occurred again about the same time". I would expect any player doing that would both make frequent saved games and would click on houses that had just begun to devolve (to see why they devolved). If you didn't make saved games and didn't check on just-devolved houses during the replay, you could replay it again as identically as possible except for frequently making saved games, and hopefully the devolution would occur as it already did twice.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 12-20-2018 @ 11:08 AM).]

pappo46
Pleb
posted 12-20-18 17:44 ET (US)     16 / 23       
I understand what you mean now. I will replay it and make frequent "save file" to see if I can provide you with better information as they devolve.

I appreciate everyone's assistance. Please understand, if my comments are not enough, that I am a new player to C3. Noob, I guess. So please do not assume I know anything. I am trying to get better because I really enjoy C3 and want to learn.

Everyone had to start with no game knowledge at one time didn't they?

[This message has been edited by pappo46 (edited 12-20-2018 @ 06:46 PM).]

jaroslav80
Pleb
posted 12-21-18 03:32 ET (US)     17 / 23       
Pappo46, nobody blames you for low knowledge about gameplay. We are just courious if the cause is trivial (moved Reservoir and fountain without water) or something unusual - e.g. some by now unknown bug.

It is nice some new player nowadays is able to recognise the beauty of C3 mechanics.
pappo46
Pleb
posted 12-21-18 07:27 ET (US)     18 / 23       
First, let me thank everyone for the feedback and advice. I learned a lot from this help.

trolgu and M Cicero you both were correct about the reservoir move causing the cascading devolution effect on the population. The rapid loss of employees removed religious employees, commerce and all essential services.
I loaded the file I downloaded and put the reservoir back to its original location and the people returned and the city stabilized quickly.
Brugle - thanks for the tip on saving my cities more often. This will be helpful for future missions.
Heleen
Pleb
posted 12-21-18 08:33 ET (US)     19 / 23       
Everyone had to start with no game knowledge at one time didn't they?
Oh, definitely! I even had the added disadvantage of not having a good understanding of the English language as a kid so I didn't understand the tutorial very well. Looking back, my attempts at finishing Brundisium were a bit.. well, pathetic. I never could finish it and was sent to the galleys many times over. One of the reasons was that I didn't understand trade so I never bothered to export anything because I didn't understand you actually needed exports to provide finances for your city. (You don't actually need to in Brundisium though, but I definitely DID need to the way I was playing it!)

I have to admit, sometimes it can be a wee bit intimidating, talking to people here who are so much better at the game than you are/I am. But I come here to learn, so I'm OK with knowing that I could never compete with most of the users here. At the end of the day, if you want to get better at a game, advanced players who know the exact ins and outs of the game are exactly who you want to talk to. The beauty of C3 is that there are so many ways to play the game, that it continues to challenge you even if you've finished the campaign several times already. And then there are the custom missions. It's really no wonder that even after all these years, there's still an active community of people who play it. And IMO, the same goes for the later iterations.

Wow, sorry, I'm rambling. I do that when I'm tired.

So, back to the three row housing block: do you use the small statues to force the second and third row to merge into 2x2 houses, so every house evolves? Did you do a test run (or use one someone else ran) of which tiles create merged houses, or do you just wait until they reach grand insula level? I seldom bother to control merging, so I usually end up with at least some medium insulae between grand ones. It's annoying.
pappo46
Pleb
posted 12-21-18 11:22 ET (US)     20 / 23       
Helen - thank you for the comments.

As far as the 3 row housing, I am trying it for the first time. Yes, it is supposed to end up in 2x2.

I found this when I was looking at how other players solved Mediolanum. If you look o on YouTube for videos by GamerZakh, you will find he posted a part 1 and 2 on Mediolanum.
He explains the theory behind the 3 row housing much better than I could.
His videos are entertaining.
Heleen
Pleb
posted 12-21-18 12:48 ET (US)     21 / 23       
Thanks, I looked it up. I've seen videos of him before. Mostly of Emperor though, for some reason.

His 3 row block was mostly to get more people in one block, I understand. It doesn't really control the merging though, he waits until they get to grand insulae (as I suspected) (edit: wait, I should've said large insulae. I didn't think - large insulae of course are also always 2x2) basically to maximize efficiency. You still end up with medium insulae of course at the front row, that's unavoidable with this design. It is quite efficient though as it can fit a lot of people, it has a good control of random walkers and it looks pretty as well.
(Edit as I'm watching the video some more: not as efficient as I thought apparently; he's constantly demolishing and rebuilding as the houses keep devolving and then evolving again in the wrong direction. That would be a problem however you try to control direction of evolution though: you'd better be very sure the block is stable before you do that, or you keep busy rebuilding. Zack's experiment is certainly interesting. And I still stand by my remark that it looks very pretty :-) I'm curious how your 3-deep block fares, though.)


Did you manage to win the mission yet at Mediolanum? I always enjoy the Mediolanum a lot, I think after Valentia it's the map I've re-played the most. Together with Londinium, I think. Have you been able to remedy the problem that was caused by your fountains losing pipe access, or did you have to go back? I understand you weren't in a habit of making many saves; I hope you didn't have to start all over again?

[This message has been edited by Heleen (edited 12-21-2018 @ 01:40 PM).]

pappo46
Pleb
posted 12-21-18 18:16 ET (US)     22 / 23       
Did you manage to win the mission yet at Mediolanum? I always enjoy the Mediolanum a lot, I think after Valentia it's the map I've re-played the most. Together with Londinium, I think. Have you been able to remedy the problem that was caused by your fountains losing pipe access, or did you have to go back? I understand you weren't in a habit of making many saves; I hope you didn't have to start all over again?
I was able to remedy the problem. As soon as I put the reservoir back from where I moved it, the population started returning. Then I reallocated the services so religion got some work force and it started repairing itself.
I have not finished it yet. I am at a population of 5300 and need 7000. Still working on it.

I am making more saves as I go along, thanks to Brugle's suggestion, so I can see when things go bad and backtrack.

[This message has been edited by pappo46 (edited 12-21-2018 @ 06:19 PM).]

Heleen
Pleb
posted 12-22-18 09:50 ET (US)     23 / 23       
If you've already satisfied the other goals, the population target shouldn't be hard to hit. It helps to start building new housing areas at the beginning of the year instead of towards the end, when prosperity is recalculated. Otherwise you might find that you finally fullfilled the population target, but that the simpler houses you invariable start out with caused your prosperity to fall. Prosperity is slow to rise, so if after that you also run into the aging population problem, you might find it much harder to win. Chances are you won't run into this problem until much later in the campaign and only/mostly with the peaceful missions which have higher goals, but it probably helps to develop certain habits earlier in the game.

Speaking of which: regular saves are a save indeed. I didn't start out doing them, which forced me to start at least a few missions from scratch because I ran into problems I was too late to remedy at a certain point. Although it did give me many hours of extra practice and it certainly contributed to me being able to call myself a mediocre player now, (as in: not a particularly good player, but I also don't suck anymore) but at the time it was quite frustrating.
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